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taming a Rod Piezo

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  • #16
    Ok, IF I understand you well, you connected the Alumitone as a conventional splittable Humbucker , with its own Volume+switch pot, a conventional tone control, straight to output jack and absolutely not connected at all to Piezo?

    And you connect the bridge Piezo through *another* jack to an external FET preamp?

    Please confirm.

    As I understood earlier,
    I plan on adding a 10k pot from the piezo straight to the jack , so it can be blended with the Lace or singled out.
    made me think both were already connected together and so adding a 10k pot woukd be an "improvement".

    Please draw what you had done earlier and what you did now, you are not showing me the full picture, just unconnected circuit blocks.

    NO NEED FOR PRO SCHEMATIC DRAWING SOFTWARE AT ALL, just draw it by hand , pencil on a white sheet of paper, correct what you donīt like , erasers were invented for that, then copy on a new piece of paper and send a picture of that.
    Donīt worry, this is not the Royal Academy of Arts but a bunch of Techs trying to understand what you did.
    Juan Manuel Fahey

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    • #17
      Originally posted by J M Fahey View Post
      Ok, IF I understand you well, you connected the Alumitone as a conventional splittable Humbucker , with its own Volume+switch pot, a conventional tone control, straight to output jack and absolutely not connected at all to Piezo?
      And you connect the bridge Piezo through *another* jack to an external FET preamp?
      Correct , Alumitone is connected as you describe , no piezo connected . I tested the pre amp in another build with the same bridge set up . I'll post the drawing(s) you requested asap . Didn't want you to think I pulled the amazing post and vanish act.
      If you don't know where your going any road'll take you there : George Harrison

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      • #18
        I think you get the idea ,leaving the Alumitone as a split conventional humbucker with vol/tone , and adding the piezo with pre amp to a seperate 10k pot to the same output jack as the Alumitone . traveling now, will post pics when I get back
        Thanks
        If you don't know where your going any road'll take you there : George Harrison

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        • #19
          Originally posted by shortcircuit View Post
          I think you get the idea ,leaving the Alumitone as a split conventional humbucker with vol/tone , and adding the piezo with pre amp to a seperate 10k pot to the same output jack as the Alumitone . traveling now, will post pics when I get back
          Thanks
          Connecting the low impedance output of the piezo buffer to the same output jack as the high impedance Alumitone will load down the Alumitone. You will probably need a PU selector switch.
          - Own Opinions Only -

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Helmholtz View Post
            Connecting the low impedance output of the piezo buffer to the same output jack as the high impedance Alumitone will load down the Alumitone. You will probably need a PU selector switch.
            Thanks , JM's point to begin with and Leo's nothing cheap and easy. Is there a way to wire this to come out of one jack, to a Y cable with 2 separate signals ?? Sorry if I'm getting off topic
            If you don't know where your going any road'll take you there : George Harrison

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            • #21
              Originally posted by shortcircuit View Post
              Thanks , JM's point to begin with and Leo's nothing cheap and easy. Is there a way to wire this to come out of one jack, to a Y cable with 2 separate signals ?? Sorry if I'm getting off topic
              Well, things get more complicated if you want to be able to use both PUs simultaneously and with the same amp. You might use a stereo jack, stereo cable (splitting to 2 plugs) into a small mixing console or two amp channels.
              Last edited by Helmholtz; 03-12-2019, 10:03 PM.
              - Own Opinions Only -

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              • #22
                Originally posted by shortcircuit View Post
                ... Is there a way to wire this to come out of one jack, to a Y cable with 2 separate signals ?? Sorry if I'm getting off topic
                Two separate signals would be easy. You could use a DPDT push-pull pot to switch it.

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                • #23
                  If you are building the preamp for the piezo into the guitar, use the same power supply and build a simple buffer for the passive humbucker. Make the output impedances match and then you could blend/mix the signals together in the guitar. If you have already built the preamp, then you've proven that you can build a 1 or 2- transistor buffer.
                  If it still won't get loud enough, it's probably broken. - Steve Conner
                  If the thing works, stop fixing it. - Enzo
                  We need more chaos in music, in art... I'm here to make it. - Justin Thomas
                  MANY things in human experience can be easily differentiated, yet *impossible* to express as a measurement. - Juan Fahey

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by eschertron View Post
                    If you are building the preamp for the piezo into the guitar, use the same power supply and build a simple buffer for the passive humbucker. Make the output impedances match and then you could blend/mix the signals together in the guitar. If you have already built the preamp, then you've proven that you can build a 1 or 2- transistor buffer.
                    Originally posted by Helmholtz View Post
                    Well, things get more complicated if you want to be able to use both PUs simultaneously and with the same amp. You might use a stereo jack, stereo cable (splitting to 2 plugs) into a small mixing console or two amp channels.
                    Thanks all.. trying to avoid internal pre amp(s)/battery , did answer my "can you match the impedance "? Stereo output vs. 2 jacks ..Ric- O Sound .. J M Fahey my drawing may be delayed
                    If you don't know where your going any road'll take you there : George Harrison

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                    • #25
                      My idea is precisely being able to have both ON if needed, maybe each with its own volume pot, maybe with a "balance" pot to smoothly go from one to the other in any desired ratio, but Iīll wait for your sketch
                      Juan Manuel Fahey

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by shortcircuit View Post
                        Thanks all.. trying to avoid internal pre amp(s)/battery
                        If you have a change of heart, it looks like there are some turn key products for mixing piezo and magnet pickups on board http://bartolini.net/product/mpb2/ . I really like the idea myself. If I ever get used to the idea that my guitar might become unplayable because of a dead battery, I might try it out.

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                        • #27
                          Well, you can both:

                          * add a switch which worst case sends passive circuit straight to jack and

                          * use a very low consumption circuit so battery lasts *ages* .

                          As in a regular 9V alkaline lasting 1600 *playing* hours so over 2 Months if left on continuously, 6 Months if rehearsing 8 hours a day every day or 80 Weeks (20 Months) if you play/rehearse 20 hours a week, every week.

                          Which in practice becomes 3 or 4 years "normal" use, the limit being battery shelf life.

                          My shop Bass which has both magnetic and piezo pickups plus one of these preamps needs battery replaced every 3 or 4 years.

                          The long life King is Music Manīs Bass preamp, built around Programmable current LM4250 , where circuit can be left continuously ON, since it needs *less* than battery self discharge, go figure, so definitely shelf life is the proper parameter, again 3-4 years.
                          Juan Manuel Fahey

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Antigua View Post
                            If you have a change of heart, it looks like there are some turn key products for mixing piezo and magnet pickups on board http://bartolini.net/product/mpb2/ . I really like the idea myself. If I ever get used to the idea that my guitar might become unplayable because of a dead battery, I might try it out.
                            Very interesting product Antiqua thanks for posting , if you look at the wiring diagram it's very similar to what J M was describing in post # 25 and what eschertron was going for in post #23 . J M please post your idea , I can tell already no matter what I come up with, it will be prehistoric to yours . As I've stated before most of you techs have forgotten more than I'll ever know. Any idea what circuit might be in the bartolini ?
                            If you don't know where your going any road'll take you there : George Harrison

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                            • #29
                              No but there are not many different ways to skin a cat and to boot "Bill" Bartolini is Argentine ... so we "should" think in similar ways

                              Iīll draw a postable schematic, doubt it ends upbeing very different from whatīs on those encapsulated modules
                              Juan Manuel Fahey

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by J M Fahey View Post
                                No but there are not many different ways to skin a cat and to boot "Bill" Bartolini is Argentine ... so we "should" think in similar ways

                                Iīll draw a postable schematic, doubt it ends upbeing very different from whatīs on those encapsulated modules
                                Thanks J M that would be greatly appreciated maybe I should incorporate it into this build
                                Click image for larger version

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                                Last edited by shortcircuit; 03-13-2019, 11:05 PM.
                                If you don't know where your going any road'll take you there : George Harrison

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