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taming a Rod Piezo

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  • taming a Rod Piezo

    Does anyone have any suggestions of ways to tame the harsh tin tone from an under the bridge rod piezo ??
    If you don't know where your going any road'll take you there : George Harrison

  • #2
    Originally posted by shortcircuit View Post
    Does anyone have any suggestions of ways to tame the harsh tin tone from an under the bridge rod piezo ??
    Nothing cheap & easy that I know of. Passing the signal through a filter that puts a deep cut on 5 KHz works. A parametric EQ would be one solution. Another, some years ago I was working with an artist who had such a problem. I found a Tech21 "Acoustic Guitar preamp/DI" with dual preamps that were combined with a mix control. When the balance was set with the knob at about 1 o'clock, the combination resulted in a 5 KHz cut that was very narrow and very deep, about 25 dB. Turned those guitars from scratchy-klacky into clear rich & robust, very hi-fi, what a major difference! If you don't mind searching out that pre/DI, I've seen 'em on Reverb offered at @ $150, you could do the same. Besides the 5K cut trick, the pre has a 3 band EQ with a semi-parametric midrange, and in my experience it's one of the very best things you can apply to an acoustic guitar - or any other instrument. Highly recommended for any performer's arsenal. BTW it can be run from P48 phantom power, what a relief if you have it available, then no wall wart or battery needed.
    This isn't the future I signed up for.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Leo_Gnardo View Post
      Nothing cheap & easy that I know of...
      Strings can make a difference. To me, The John Pearse 80/20 bronze, and ernie ball earthwood strings (also 80/20) sound better on an active piezo. I've had a few guitars with passive piezo pickups, and I preferred the tone.

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      • #4
        Agree and add: avoid creating a squeaky scratchy frequencyb response in the first place.

        Put a 10M input impedance buffer or preamp right in the guitar, less than 12 inches away from pickup.
        You´ll be amazed at the now recovered fatness.

        And now you have a loud and low impedance signal which can drive any EQ you want to add, even a plain 22k series resistor and 1000pF to 2200pF capacitor to ground.
        Juan Manuel Fahey

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        • #5
          Originally posted by J M Fahey View Post
          Agree and add: avoid creating a squeaky scratchy frequencyb response in the first place.
          Don't use one to begin with, problem solved Just kidding , thanks for all the input, I'll do some R&D , see what I come up with.
          If you don't know where your going any road'll take you there : George Harrison

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          • #6
            Originally posted by J M Fahey View Post
            drive any EQ you want to add, even a plain 22k series resistor and 1000pF to 2200pF capacitor to ground.
            Are you referring to the cap across the tone pot??
            I built this circuit to try , just because I had all the components on hand
            Click image for larger version

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            If you don't know where your going any road'll take you there : George Harrison

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            • #7
              Originally posted by shortcircuit View Post
              Are you referring to the cap across the tone pot??
              I built this circuit to try , just because I had all the components on hand
              [ATTACH=CONFIG]52829[/ATTACH]
              To that circuit shown you can add a cap parallel to the 220k resistor which will bleed HF to ground.
              If it still won't get loud enough, it's probably broken. - Steve Conner
              If the thing works, stop fixing it. - Enzo
              We need more chaos in music, in art... I'm here to make it. - Justin Thomas
              MANY things in human experience can be easily differentiated, yet *impossible* to express as a measurement. - Juan Fahey

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              • #8
                Originally posted by eschertron View Post
                To that circuit shown you can add a cap parallel to the 220k resistor which will bleed HF to ground.
                Thanks I'll give that a try, not sure what I have in pf caps on hand
                If you don't know where your going any road'll take you there : George Harrison

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                • #9
                  Build it as-is and post results.
                  Maybe you don´t even NEED treble cutting or if a little, it can be dealt with with standard amplifier tone controls.
                  Juan Manuel Fahey

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by J M Fahey View Post
                    Build it as-is and post results.
                    Maybe you don´t even NEED treble cutting or if a little, it can be dealt with with standard amplifier tone controls.
                    You may be right, definitely made it more manageable in the test subject , and would change depending on amp/cabinet etc. Made a portable unit for testing.
                    Click image for larger version

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ID:	853291 I'm sure this isn't what you pictured ,here is where it's going
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ID:	853292 This is a Lace Alumitone Matchbook pick-up , Bourns 250k push/pull volume splits the Alumitone , Bourns 250k tone with a .022 cap, that all sounds real good. The piezo is in the bridge, the brass pin is my saddle,sitting right on the piezo . Taking your "avoid creating" quote, I've been switching out the brass pin with , bone, plastic, a Q tip shaft (rolled cardboard ??) all with interesting results . I plan on adding a 10k pot from the piezo straight to the jack , so it can be blended with the Lace or singled out. Open to all suggestions they are always appreciated.
                    If you don't know where your going any road'll take you there : George Harrison

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                    • #11
                      Beautiful build, and also the explanation for your harsh unbearable sound: you can NOT repeat NOT connect a Piezo straight to another pickup, or a standard volume control, tone controls, etc; PERIOD.

                      I´m appalled at your circuit , so I´ll draw something suitable, that beautiful cigar box guitar deserves it.

                      Your big problem is not in the saddle material or anywhere else, compared to the electrical problem.
                      Juan Manuel Fahey

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                      • #12
                        Ok that would be great, the Alumitone set up was suggested to me by Lace , and it does rock. Am always open for improvements and corrections that's why I'm here to learn from the best!!! Thank you for the build compliment appreciate that.
                        If you don't know where your going any road'll take you there : George Harrison

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Leo_Gnardo View Post
                          I found a Tech21 "Acoustic Guitar preamp/DI"
                          Did check this out, the new version is called Tech 21 SansAmp Para Driver DI Preamp Pedal V2 , new for $200 . Unfortunately I have to make a 120 mile round trip to try one out , unless I do the buy, try, return dance (if it didn't work out ). I see other similar units , that's where a side by side comparison would be nice, maybe it would make the trip worth it . Interested to see what JM comes up with. Thanks for the input
                          If you don't know where your going any road'll take you there : George Harrison

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                          • #14
                            Hi, searched all over the place I have not been able to find a wiring schematic for the Matchbook Alumitone, not even at the Lace page itself https://lacemusic.com/pages/wiring-diagrams

                            All it says is this, which is incomplete:
                            https://lacemusic.com/collections/9/...tchbook-pickup

                            do you have any clickable link?

                            In any case, also draw and post wiring of what you built, so I can add the piezo buffer and how to interconnect it with the rest of the circuit.

                            In spme videos I see a bunch of white, red and green wires coming out of the pickup, but nobody shows wiring.

                            Thanks.
                            Juan Manuel Fahey

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                            • #15
                              Here is what comes with the pick up , and also what Lace sent me.
                              Click image for larger version

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ID:	853303 and I'm happy with this part so far,but always open to other options. The piezo pre amp circuit I built is the one posted earlier Click image for larger version

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ID:	853304 I just installed it into an Altoids tin for testing. Really appreciate your help
                              Last edited by shortcircuit; 03-09-2019, 08:30 PM.
                              If you don't know where your going any road'll take you there : George Harrison

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