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Thread: 1971 Randall RG-90 head, smoking speaker!

  1. #36
    Old Timer olddawg's Avatar
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    Maybe it’s different over there but that amp is worth about $50 here in working condition. Just a thought.

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    Member czech-one-2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by g1 View Post
    That should be TIP29 & 30, not TIS. They are not fet's. Pretty much the same as the 30 and 31 shown on the RG100 schematic.
    Yes, TIP, I was going from memory at 2a.m, never a good thing.

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  3. #38
    Member czech-one-2's Avatar
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    Thanks for the wisdom

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    Quote Originally Posted by Randall View Post
    "You mean the big metal RCA's or one of the small black ones?"

    No offense, but if you don't know where and which are the power transistors, you have no business trying to fix this amp.
    RANDALL, your obviously a tech with all kinds of tools at your disposal, and yet even you with all your infinite knowledge still start threads in order to repair your Randall amp.
    https://music-electronics-forum.com/...54050#poststop

    Now, imagine you are a guitar player with a limited set of tools and only hands on knowledge, just coming here for some possible causes and a little direction. I really didnt start the thread to hear that its 'not that hard' and I can buy a schematic for 20 bucks or that my amp isnt worth what I paid for it.

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    Last edited by czech-one-2; 06-02-2019 at 10:07 AM.

  5. #40
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    I am thankful every time someone initiates a thread that gets the group here troubleshooting. This website represents a wealth of information detailing so many different faults and resolutions to amplifier failures. Not to mention this site has great information on instruments, pick ups, and many many other topics of interest. The rules are simple: there are no dumb questions except the ones you failed to ask. I remember picking up a broken Carvin solid state amp from a shop I had worked for a while back. The owner of the shop pointed at the output transistors on the back of the amp and said they thought that these diodes might be faulty. I just acted polite and said I will check those output transistors to see if they are a problem. They do have diodes in them I guess so not too far off the mark really. When I first came to MEF I had to learn the terminology and the names of parts that were in an amplifier really quick as to not discourage the help that I could receive. In between questions I asked on the forum involved lots of google searches and reading up to be able to converse better on the site. Before too long my knowledge base on the basics of amplifier parts got better and my ability to read schematics improved. It took lots of time for sure but with the help of MEF members it set me on the path to learn these things better.

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  6. #41
    Member czech-one-2's Avatar
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    Thanks Drgonz78! Thats refreshing to hear. I know most folks here are always extremely helpful [and extremely patient with non tech types]. I wish I had retained all the stuff I've learned here in the past but really, I end up here only when I feel I've bitten off more than I can chew, and I do do this often enough to retain all the info. I can get around a tube amp quite well, but these old solid state amps baffle me.
    I'll report back when I get the transistors in. But I might just go ahead and change out all the small electrolytics cause my meter doesn't test capacitors.
    I dont want to fry the new power transistors cause I bought genuine RCA replacements that werent exactly cheap. I'll double check everything that I can like resistors before I power it up again.

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  7. #42
    Old Timer olddawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by czech-one-2 View Post
    RANDALL, your obviously a tech with all kinds of tools at your disposal, and yet even you with all your infinite knowledge still start threads in order to repair your Randall amp.
    https://music-electronics-forum.com/...54050#poststop

    Now, imagine you are a guitar player with a limited set of tools and only hands on knowledge, just coming here for some possible causes and a little direction. I really didnt start the thread to hear that its 'not that hard' and I can buy a schematic for 20 bucks or that my amp isnt worth what I paid for it.
    There is no disrespect is intended I’m sure. We get all kinds of people posting with wildly varying levels of skill and competency. There seems to be an all too common belief lately that anything old is desirable/better. It simply isn’t true. Old solid state equipment can be especially problematic since parts are frequently obsolete and unobtainable. At that point you need the skill set to actually redesign/modify the circuits to use modern/existing components. Yes.. there are a lot of very experienced, competent techs on this site. Most are wiling to help you within reason. It’s like this.. if I tell you it’s probably not worth repairing.. it probably isn’t. If another tech looks at the conversation and says that if you really want it fixed, you should probably take it to a shop.. you probably should. But.. it’s just our educated opinions. Honestly we are just trying to save you time, grief, and money. There will not be a “quick” fix. If you want to turn the amp into a “learning experience”. That’s another story. In that case it’s time to stop burning it down and start reading some electronics theory.

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  8. #43
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    Again, I'm open to suggestions if somebody knows a tech in my neck of the planet, that would be great.
    As far as the 'old is better' thing goes, I let my ears guide me there. These old solid state amps sound worlds better than most modeling or digital amps. I own a few old Japanese PEARL solid state amps that have beautiful, fendery clean tones. They are LOUD with unlimited clean headroom, half the weight of a Fender twin and a perfect clean platform for pedals.
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  9. #44
    Supporting Member Jazz P Bass's Avatar
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    Unfortunately, solid state amp repair can be a real 'bear'.

    Tube amps are relatively easy as the high voltage stages are coupled to the next stage by Vdc blocking capacitors.
    Which makes things unlikely to blow up.

    SS amps on the other hand are 'direct coupled'. No caps to stop the voltage.
    So when things go bad , they go bad.

    A tried and true tool is a 'lamp limiter'.
    If the amp is in a failed state and tries to pull huge amounts of current, the filament in the lamp will help absorb it.
    Along with a visual interpretation of what is going on. (bright is bad)

    Another useful tool is an ammeter on the mains.
    I use a device called 'Kill A Watt' along with an ammeter.

    If you want to learn I would suggest fellow member Teemuck's online book.
    http://www.thatraymond.com/downloads...ttala_v1.0.pdf
    (Download Caution: it is 419 pages)

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    Last edited by Jazz P Bass; 06-03-2019 at 05:17 AM.

  10. #45
    Member czech-one-2's Avatar
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    While I'm waiting for new transistors and a bridge rectifier, I'm gonna recap with new electrolytics. One question, what are the yellow .22uf/200v caps? [pic] They look polarized so are they like 'speaker divider' type capacitors? There's 4 of them in this amp.
    Also, these white/red stripe diodes, 1N4007 types?

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    Last edited by czech-one-2; 06-11-2019 at 02:18 PM.

  11. #46
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    One question, what are the yellow .22uf/200v caps? [pic] They look polarized so are they like 'speaker divider' type capacitors? There's 4 of them in this amp.
    The yellow .22µ cap is a (non-polarized) film cap. The black ring/band identifies the terminal which connects to the outside foil. Probably used as coupling cap or in the tone stack.

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  12. #47
    Supporting Member Jazz P Bass's Avatar
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    My advise is to NOT do anything until else to the amplifier you get the amp working.

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  14. #49
    Supporting Member Jazz P Bass's Avatar
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    If you start mucking around replacing caps & other parts with the amp nonfunctional at this point, how will you know if you got it correct.

    That is why I strongly advise that you troubleshoot the amp & repair it so it works?

    Then have at it with replacing parts.

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    Last edited by Jazz P Bass; 06-12-2019 at 05:29 PM.

  15. #50
    Member czech-one-2's Avatar
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    Its blowing fuses so I'm not gonna turn it on to troubleshoot until I replace all the electrolytic caps, power transistors, bridge rectifier and those TIP30C/29C transistors. Its my best shot. I figure all 50 year old electrolytics can probably benefit from being replaced.
    I dont have a bulb limiter, oscilloscope or any of that stuff. I got a DVM and thats all.
    How do you troubleshoot when the amp blows its fuse on power up?

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    Last edited by czech-one-2; 06-11-2019 at 06:58 PM.

  16. #51
    Stray Cap DrGonz78's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by czech-one-2 View Post
    How do you troubleshoot when the amp blows its fuse on power up?
    You build a light bulb limiter so it will, hopefully, stop blowing fuses. No point powering it up without the light bulb limiter as that will only blow more fuses and possibly keep destroying more fragile semiconductor based parts from the current draw. I would only replace transistors, diodes and burnt resistors at this stage of the game. Then start the amp with a 60 watt light bulb in the limiter. If the bulb lights up bright there is still something pulling too much current. If you have no schematic I would make sure that I have great pictures of every nook and cranny of the amp, that way if some resistor burns up you can figure out the value.

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  17. #52
    Supporting Member The Dude's Avatar
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    If you've got a DVM, why not just check the solid state parts and see if they need replacing?

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  18. #53
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    Thats kinda what I'm doing, but I ordered a better multi meter as mine sucks.
    I'm also gonna build a light bulb limiter or else you guys may ban me from this forum. Got lots of music to learn now so project on hold a couple weeks...

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    You will not regret building a limiter , .. don't mix your Bb with an A#

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  20. #55
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    I want to build a simple one without a switch. I'm not sure how to wire it up using EU two prong plugs...
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    Quote Originally Posted by czech-one-2 View Post
    I want to build a simple one without a switch. I'm not sure how to wire it up using EU two prong plugs...
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    Regarding safety it is mandatory to use a 3 wire arrangement that provides safety grounding of the load/amplifier connected. I.e. the yellow/green ground/earth wire must connect the ground contact of your wall outlet and the amplifier chassis. Your lamp fixture may not need to be grounded (if it's safety Class II), but the amp does. Also any accessible metal parts of your bulb limiter must be securely connected to the ground wire.

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    Last edited by Helmholtz; 06-14-2019 at 03:53 PM.
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  22. #57
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    Ok, got it. It was pretty easy, didnt blow up my wifes hairdryer anyway

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  23. #58
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    My bulb limiter design:
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    Used the housing of a household transformer which already provided the outlet. Just had to drill a small hole for the lamp holder, connect the wires and ground the housing.

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    Last edited by Helmholtz; 06-14-2019 at 11:00 PM.
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  24. #59
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    The amps bridge rectifier shows continuity between all four lugs, that cant be right...right?
    Also, it has a plastic base, my new BR is metal. Does it need to be isolated from the chassis in SS amps?

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  25. #60
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    ''I built a fuse tester once. If the fuse flashed, that meant it had been good''. ENZO

    :-DDDD

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    Stray Cap DrGonz78's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by czech-one-2 View Post
    Also, it has a plastic base, my new BR is metal. Does it need to be isolated from the chassis in SS amps?
    None of the legs of the bridge rectifier should have a connection to the metal base. Get out your meter and check to see. Just different heat sink potential.

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  27. #62
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    ^ Thats what I thought, but you know with these ss amps, one short and there go all the traces.
    what about the continuity between all the legs on the bridge rectifier?

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  28. #63
    Don't forget the joker g1's Avatar
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    Continuity is a vague term. Please give us readings in ohms.
    If you have very low resistance between all legs, it could be the bridge, or the circuit it is connected to. Are you measuring with all legs disconnected from the circuit?

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    No, measured with everything hooked up. Just surprised that there is continuity between all the legs.

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  30. #65
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    double post...

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    Last edited by czech-one-2; 09-16-2019 at 09:24 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Randall View Post
    "You mean the big metal RCA's or one of the small black ones?"

    No offense, but if you don't know where and which are the power transistors, you have no business trying to fix this amp.
    double post...

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    Last edited by czech-one-2; 09-16-2019 at 09:26 PM.

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    Well.....6 months later and ITS ALIVE! :-)
    Its really nothing short of a miracle as this amp has had ALOT of techs and non techs working on it over the years, including sharpie marks by all components.
    I replaced the TIP29C and TIP30Cs as well as the four 2N6254 power transistors. [these were most likely the problem].
    The tremolo works and the amp is LOUD, CLEAN and very quiet.
    The only thing not working now is the spring reverb. If I gently strum the springs I here it faintly through the speakers, so the rca cables are ok and I have a few tanks so the tank is ok. These amps have a great spring reverb sound so I really want to fix it so that its working 100%. The reverb trim pot seems to be working.
    If you guys can help me trouble shoot just the reverb circuit I would be grateful! :-)
    Still interested in finding a schematic for this 1971 Randall RG90 head.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazz P Bass View Post
    Unfortunately, solid state amp repair can be a real 'bear'.

    Tube amps are relatively easy as the high voltage stages are coupled to the next stage by Vdc blocking capacitors.
    Which makes things unlikely to blow up.

    SS amps on the other hand are 'direct coupled'. No caps to stop the voltage.
    So when things go bad , they go bad.

    A tried and true tool is a 'lamp limiter'.
    If the amp is in a failed state and tries to pull huge amounts of current, the filament in the lamp will help absorb it.
    Along with a visual interpretation of what is going on. (bright is bad)

    Another useful tool is an ammeter on the mains.
    I use a device called 'Kill A Watt' along with an ammeter.

    If you want to learn I would suggest fellow member Teemuck's online book.
    http://www.thatraymond.com/downloads...ttala_v1.0.pdf
    (Download Caution: it is 419 pages)
    And thanks for that, I now have a lamp limiter! :-)

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  34. #69
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    All I can say without a schematic is that if you can't get a real loud response from the springs with the reverb and volume turned up, then I think the problem is on the recovery side of the reverb circuit.
    Have you looked at the RG80 schematic? Is it similar? You may have to draw out what you have there.
    If it's like the RG80, the coupling cap at the reverb output, or the recovery IC, would be suspects.

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    Member czech-one-2's Avatar
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    Actually, if I shake the tank it rattles loudly through the speaker, just nothing through the guitar input.
    I gotta fix it now cause everything else is working great, and these amps have one of the best spring reverb tones of any solid state amp ever made.
    Unfortunately, I'm at a loss. Also, there are no IC's in this amp, it is a 1971 model.
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    Here's the latest pics with the amp working. Maybe someone could point out the reverb coupling cap? I would really like to know what the original transistors were, as all the small black transistors were replaced at one time and most have been installed with different orientations from the original 'triangle' transistor holes. In other words, some have different C B E orientation than the originals. Hopefully the tech that did this knew what he was doing!
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