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  • Blues Jr. raspy, fartiness

    Posting this for anyone's future benefit.

    Blues Jr III comes in with a nasty, distorted sound that sounds just like a bad speaker, but confirmed not as it does it into a different cab. Fellow had lightning in one of his EL84s, so he put in a new set. Didn't have this problem before. First thing when I power it up is notice a pretty sizable hum, which he said always did that from new 4 years ago. I measure the hum at the speaker, and scratch my head because it was coming out as 40KHz. I see a 50vp-p sine on the scope that is not effected by any of the controls. I double checked it on my Fluke, and sure enough it reads 38.5KHz.

    Thing really strange thing is when playing through it, the amplitude of the hum sine does not increase with the notes, it just sort of widens the trace to the right until it breaks up, which really has me puzzled. Oscillation?

    What I have done so far is probe and flex, change all the tubes, moved the ribbons per Bill m. clipped fresh caps one at a time on the filters, and clipped in a different 15 watt OT, which was even worse, maybe from all the clip leads. The original OT passes the neon test.

    What is up with this thing?

    I finally did what I probably should have done sooner, compare power tube voltages. I had 294 volts on one screen pin 9, and 16 volts on the other, AHAH! Sure enough R35 screen fuse was open, likely taken out by the shorted tube. Replaced it, and it is fixed. Not sure why the high speaker reading, or exactly why it scoped the way it did, but I do understand only one conducting tube here is a bad thing.

    Another mystery solved.

    https://www.thetubestore.com/lib/the...atic-Rev-D.pdf

    002.mp4
    Last edited by Randall; 06-19-2019, 01:40 AM.
    It's weird, because it WAS working fine.....

  • #2
    Originally posted by Randall View Post
    Posting this for anyone's future benefit.

    Blues Jr III comes in with a nasty, distorted sound that sounds just like a bad speaker, but confirmed not as it does it into a different cab. Fellow had lightning in one of his EL84s, so he put in a new set. Didn't have this problem before. First thing when I power it up is notice a pretty sizable hum, which he said always did that from new 4 years ago. I measure the hum at the speaker, and scratch my head because it was coming out as 40KHz. I see a 50vp-p sine on the scope that is not effected by any of the controls. I double checked it on my Fluke, and sure enough it reads 38.5KHz.

    Thing really strange thing is when playing through it, the amplitude of the hum sine does not increase with the notes, it just sort of widens the trace to the right until it breaks up, which really has me puzzled. Oscillation?

    What I have done so far is probe and flex, change all the tubes, moved the ribbons per Bill m. clipped fresh caps one at a time on the filters, and clipped in a different 15 watt OT, which was even worse, maybe from all the clip leads. The original OT passes the neon test.

    What is up with this thing?

    I finally did what I probably should have done sooner, compare power tube voltages. I had 294 volts on one screen pin 9, and 16 volts on the other, AHAH! Sure enough R35 screen fuse was open, likely taken out by the shorted tube. Replaced it, and it is fixed. Not sure why the high speaker reading, or exactly why it scoped the way it did, but I do understand only one conducting tube here is a bad thing.

    Another mystery solved.

    https://www.thetubestore.com/lib/the...atic-Rev-D.pdf

    [ATTACH]54044[/ATTACH]
    ....pretty sizable hum, which he said always did that from new 4 yrs ago.......so much for quality control screening at Fender. I've no idea what their QC practices are......such as spot-check 10-20% of each production run of each model, or what. Seems like that sort of defect would have been caught at the store where it was sold, thought not that anyone there would have any clue about it.

    Good job on the investigation and discovery. Thanks for posting this!
    Logic is an organized way of going wrong with confidence

    Comment


    • #3
      Turns out the hum was also a symptom of running on only one tube. It dropped to a reasonable noise floor once the screen resistor was replaced. So in this case, it would seem the 73 year old customer was off in his hearing and memory.
      It's weird, because it WAS working fine.....

      Comment


      • #4
        Is it possible that it blew up at the store but nobody noticed or cared? Wouldn't be the first time I've seen "questionable" goods leave a shop floor & let the customer sort it out later, even on new gear...

        Justin
        "Wow it's red! That doesn't look like the standard Marshall red. It's more like hooker lipstick/clown nose/poodle pecker red." - Chuck H. -
        "Of course that means playing **LOUD** , best but useless solution to modern sissy snowflake players." - J.M. Fahey -
        "All I ever managed to do with that amp was... kill small rodents within a 50 yard radius of my practice building." - Tone Meister -

        Comment


        • #5
          No, it ran fine for 4 years until a recent tube short failure.
          It's weird, because it WAS working fine.....

          Comment


          • #6
            These are known to oscillate. I was working on one in the garage and once i saw the oscillation on the scope, i noticed the cat went running out the door about 150mph. I think moving the ribbon cables cured it.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by mozz View Post
              These are known to oscillate. I was working on one in the garage and once i saw the oscillation on the scope, i noticed the cat went running out the door about 150mph. I think moving the ribbon cables cured it.
              about the cat...
              If it ain't broke I'll fix it until it is...
              I have just enough knowledge to be dangerous...

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Randall View Post
                No, it ran fine for 4 years until a recent tube short failure.
                Sorry, misread your original post.

                Justin
                "Wow it's red! That doesn't look like the standard Marshall red. It's more like hooker lipstick/clown nose/poodle pecker red." - Chuck H. -
                "Of course that means playing **LOUD** , best but useless solution to modern sissy snowflake players." - J.M. Fahey -
                "All I ever managed to do with that amp was... kill small rodents within a 50 yard radius of my practice building." - Tone Meister -

                Comment


                • #9
                  "These are known to oscillate. I think moving the ribbon cables cured it."

                  First thing I do in these.
                  It's weird, because it WAS working fine.....

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    When I did some work for Dean Markley one of the projects he was considering was a ready made amp offered by, oh let's just say, "an overseas company" that was a spot on copy of the blues junior schematic. Except it used 6L6 power tubes, the layout was superior and there were no ribbon cables. It sounded GREAT! There were a few tweaks I made to dial it in. Ronnie Montrose though it sounded really good when play tested after the tweaks. In the end it was decided that it didn't have all the features to compete as a two big bottle amp and couldn't be sold for the budget price of a Blues Junior or it's competition. It was just one of the projects I worked on in that venture. But...

                    Taken at face value it was a really good and useful amp (which really miffed me actually). And the Blues Junior "schematic" makes for a good design overall. That Fender is having a problem with instability as minute as flexing the ribbon cables out of memory bodes very poorly for their technical team IMHO. JM2C on that. Maybe Fender should hire ME!?! I'm sure it could only help, but they could never know that.
                    "Take two placebos, works twice as well." Enzo

                    "Now get off my lawn with your silicooties and boom-chucka speakers and computers masquerading as amplifiers" Justin Thomas

                    "If you're not interested in opinions and the experience of others, why even start a thread?
                    You can't just expect consent." Helmholtz

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Chuck H View Post
                      When I did some work for Dean Markley one of the projects he was considering was a ready made amp offered by, oh let's just say, "an overseas company" that was a spot on copy of the blues junior schematic. Except it used 6L6 power tubes, the layout was superior and there were no ribbon cables. It sounded GREAT! There were a few tweaks I made to dial it in. Ronnie Montrose though it sounded really good when play tested after the tweaks. In the end it was decided that it didn't have all the features to compete as a two big bottle amp and couldn't be sold for the budget price of a Blues Junior or it's competition. It was just one of the projects I worked on in that venture. But...

                      Taken at face value it was a really good and useful amp (which really miffed me actually). And the Blues Junior "schematic" makes for a good design overall. That Fender is having a problem with instability as minute as flexing the ribbon cables out of memory bodes very poorly for their technical team IMHO. JM2C on that. Maybe Fender should hire ME!?! I'm sure it could only help, but they could never know that.
                      Yup... I have posted this before... but here it is again...

                      I fixed mine...

                      Stock Blues Junior from the master volume to the output.

                      Front end is "more or less" the AB763 minus the tremolo.

                      This one can't burn traces...
                      Attached Files
                      If it ain't broke I'll fix it until it is...
                      I have just enough knowledge to be dangerous...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        ^^^ that's a beautiful thing right there.
                        It's weird, because it WAS working fine.....

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by galaxiex View Post
                          Yup... I have posted this before... but here it is again...

                          I fixed mine...

                          Stock Blues Junior from the master volume to the output.

                          Front end is "more or less" the AB763 minus the tremolo.

                          This one can't burn traces...
                          Yes, THAT is a beautiful piece of work!! I gather the Stand-by Switch shown in the schematic wasn't incorporated in this build. Nice layout work & lead dress!
                          Logic is an organized way of going wrong with confidence

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by nevetslab View Post
                            Yes, THAT is a beautiful piece of work!! I gather the Stand-by Switch shown in the schematic wasn't incorporated in this build. Nice layout work & lead dress!
                            Thanks!

                            Yes, the S/B switch is on the main power switch.

                            It's one of those 3 position things. Off-Standby-On

                            I should have labelled the schematic switches S1a and S1b
                            If it ain't broke I'll fix it until it is...
                            I have just enough knowledge to be dangerous...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              There's a few other tricks besides proper bending of the ribbon cables. I may have had to use the 100pf too.

                              http://billmaudio.com/wp/?page_id=115

                              Comment

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