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Thread: New to winding pickups. Some questions to begin with

  1. #36
    ToneOholic! big_teee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LtKojak View Post
    No.
    So mr Kojak, what do you like to wind?
    I do lots of Armchair winding these days!
    T

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    Last edited by big_teee; 07-20-2019 at 07:07 PM.
    If You Find Yourself in a Hole, Quit Digging ! Will Rogers 1930s.

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    Senior Member LtKojak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_teee View Post
    lots of Armchair winding these days!
    T
    You and me both, Tee!

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    Pepe aka Lt. Kojak
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    I saw the specs of some high output humbuckers wound in UK, and they all use the trio magnets, one thick A5 or C8 in the center and 2 thick A5 or C8 spacers repelling.

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  4. #39
    ToneOholic! big_teee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tepsamps View Post
    I saw the specs of some high output humbuckers wound in UK, and they all use the trio magnets, one thick A5 or C8 in the center and 2 thick A5 or C8 spacers repelling.
    I guess someone makes and sells them, but I've never seen any thick alnico bars, just the .125 inch thick kind.
    I've seen all kind of the thick Ceramics.
    T

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    If You Find Yourself in a Hole, Quit Digging ! Will Rogers 1930s.

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    Senior Member LtKojak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_teee View Post
    I guess someone makes and sells them, but I've never seen any thick alnico bars, just the .125 inch thick kind.
    I've seen all kind of the thick Ceramics.
    T
    Mike from British Cermag make'em. Not cheap, but If you wanna try, there you have It.

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    Pepe aka Lt. Kojak
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    Senior Member LtKojak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tepsamps View Post
    Neodymium for bass ? I think that for bass we would promote clean tone and neodymium can overdrive a clean amp so i'm surprised.
    It's hard to find neo's that would fit a humbucker, i found only one in china with the good dimensions and orientation, i asked a factory for custom making, but they want 250 magnets at least, so for just a try it's too much... 8 € per magnet ...a 2000 € order ...
    Some say it's good, some say it's horrible...
    In a nutshell, neo bar magnets would be simply unusable in a std. humbucker design.

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    Pepe aka Lt. Kojak
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    Quote Originally Posted by LtKojak View Post
    Mike from British Cermag make'em. Not cheap, but If you wanna try, there you have It.
    This store is really great. They sell neodymium HB magnets, and thick ceramic spacers cheap, just what i was looking for.

    Yes thick alnico bars are quite expensive, compared to ceramic. But not as expensive as in some stores where they just resell a 0,50 magnet for 4.5 or 7...In china the price is 0.22 USD for a thick ceramic HB magnet!!!

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  8. #43
    Senior Member LtKojak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tepsamps View Post
    They sell neodymium HB magnets
    They didn't last time I've shopped there, so I've just had to look.

    Interesting, the short version is outsold; they use the lowest (N38) neodymium grade, which in theory would put'em in the same N cathegory of A9, which haven't been a great success in the few p'ups I've tried. Nails-on-the-chalkbord syndrome.

    And for the experiences I've done with single-coil, Strat-type p'ups, although acheiving good output balance between strings by using different small mags in every slug, I don't think I'd like to try again. The outcome I got is a cold as ice, very clinic-sterile vibe as a set, being the bridge p'up the "worst offender", for the lack of a better word to describe it.

    Of course, that's my own, taste-biased opinion. If anybody would like to experiment, just have at it, and please, keep us posted about the outcome. I'm open at learn new things, despite being an "old dog", so to speak.

    Any takers?

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    Last edited by LtKojak; 07-22-2019 at 07:52 AM.
    Pepe aka Lt. Kojak
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    Member Alberto's Avatar
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    I had them all from Cermag: the neodymium HB magnet and the thick A5 and C8. I use the thick A5 for Filtertron style pups in hb size and the thick C8 for high output humbuckers. I still don't know what to do with the neodymium HB magnet, though. I'm using it to pick up items which had fallen on the ground

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    Well ... I have to try. I'll try the thick C8 trio and the thin neo magnet as soon as i can. I'm moving house and all my stuff is packed.

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    Apologies if this is a thread hijack!
    I'm also beginning on a humbucker and have received conflicting information, maybe someone here could help me to clear that up!
    The parts in bold are of interest...

    StewMac Humbucker kit instructions says: "Secure the lead wire and protect the coil wire. Repeat the winding procedure for the other coil (same winding direction, same number of turns)."

    https://www.stewmac.com/How-To/Onlin...ickup_Kit.html

    Ian Dayton "How to Make a Humbucker Pickup" says "The first step is to wind the bobbins. It is important to make sure to wind the bobbins in opposite directions."

    https://courses.physics.illinois.edu...eport_Sp12.pdf

    I bought the StewMac kit and I'm about to follow their instructions, but it is my understanding that the very name "Humbucking" comes from the ability to buck said hum, and that this only comes from one of the coils being reverse wound in relation to the other coil.
    I've done plenty of Strat sets with middle rw/rp and note the humbucking capability.

    Which one is correct, StewMac or Mr. Dayton?

    Your thoughts and replies are most welcome, and thanks for the warm welcome to the forum!

    Cheers.

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  12. #47
    ToneOholic! big_teee's Avatar
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    They can both be correct, but the stewmac method is the way Gibson started making them, back in the day?
    If you refer to the diagram below.
    It shows both coils wound the same direction.
    By tying the two finish leads together?
    The signal is going in one direction in one coil, and the other direction, in the other coil.
    In the diagram the North coil signal is inside out going Clockwise.
    With the two finish leads tied together?
    On the South coil the signal is outside in, going Counter Clockwise.
    Creating the humbucking effect!

    If you wind one coil CW, and one CCW?
    Then you would need to tie one finish lead to one start lead to make the polarity hum canceling.
    T
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by big_teee; 08-02-2019 at 09:43 PM.
    If You Find Yourself in a Hole, Quit Digging ! Will Rogers 1930s.

    Terry

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    Thanks big teee, I do appreciate this. I can see how a newbie would be easily confused by this. The diagram helps.
    I've wound two coils in the same direction and I'll have a go at getting that wired up correctly, but next time I think I'll wind the two coils in opposing directions.
    Thanks again for your help, much appreciated.

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  14. #49
    Senior Member LtKojak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo id View Post
    next time I think I'll wind the two coils in opposing directions.
    The standard way of wiring humbucker p'ups since the birth of the PAF, has always been winding both coils CCW, then wiring'em in the following fashion:

    Screw coil: Start > ground - End > Live to Live Slug coil
    Slug coil: Live to Live Screw coil - Start > Output

    Why would you do it differently? If you do it as you said, then it'll be out-of-phase with the rest of the market? It just doesn't make any sense.

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  15. #50
    ToneOholic! big_teee's Avatar
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    I've experimented with winding high output humbucker bobbins in different directions.
    Some of the Gibson Dirty finger pickups, have been recorded to be wound that way.
    For example:
    If you use no metal covers, and are trying to get the output lead further away from the center ground?
    You could have the output on the finish lead of the slug coil, tie the start to the finish of the screw coil, and tie the screw coil start to ground.
    That gives a little more separation, and IME, it worked well on high output pickups.
    As far as which direction you wind them, and how you orient the magnets, is strictly up to the builder.
    On a bridge pickup, I like a bit more turns on the slug coil.
    On neck pickups, I usually end up liking and winding both bobbins the same.
    I also like humbuckers without covers, and double screw bobbins.
    I suggest you experiment and figure out what you like.
    That's why we call it custom winding.
    GL,
    T

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    Last edited by big_teee; 08-04-2019 at 08:45 AM.
    If You Find Yourself in a Hole, Quit Digging ! Will Rogers 1930s.

    Terry

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    Thanks Kojak. All I could find on this was conflicting information, as posted above.
    Indeed it doesn't make any sense. That's why I'm here, to ask the builders with experience.
    “Who loves ya, baby?” haha, now where's that lollypop?

    Big T, Thanks again, it is all becoming clear now.
    I've not yet wired my humbucker coils together (the ones wound in the same direction) but I'll be sure to follow the jpeg you posted.
    Very helpful both Kojak and Big T, I do appreciate it.

    Thanks.

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  17. #52
    Woodgrinder/Pickupwinder copperheadroads's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo id View Post
    Thanks Kojak. All I could find on this was conflicting information, as posted above.
    Indeed it doesn't make any sense. That's why I'm here, to ask the builders with experience.
    “Who loves ya, baby?” haha, now where's that lollypop?

    Big T, Thanks again, it is all becoming clear now.
    I've not yet wired my humbucker coils together (the ones wound in the same direction) but I'll be sure to follow the jpeg you posted.
    Very helpful both Kojak and Big T, I do appreciate it.

    Thanks.
    Just so you know I've never ever seen a brand of humbucker where the coils were not wound in the same direction & with either Finish ends connected together or the start ends.

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    "UP here in the Canada we shoot things we don't understand"

  18. #53
    ToneOholic! big_teee's Avatar
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    Fender did a lot of the reverse wound stuff.
    The P-Bass Bucker Had some years wound like that.
    Not sure what they did on the wide range buckers.
    I started with the Stew Mac instructions, and they emphasized the right arm top going, Finish leads tied together.
    If you use a 4 wire cable, you can come up with several combinations!
    On 4 wire, I used the SD colors, the slug bobbin black and white, screw bobbin green & red!
    GL,
    T

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    If You Find Yourself in a Hole, Quit Digging ! Will Rogers 1930s.

    Terry

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    Thanks guys, I'm feeling welcome here already. I do appreciate the help and words of advice.
    Your posts are a wealth of knowledge.
    Cheers.

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