Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 35 of 39

Thread: Buying and inductor to make a varitone

  1. #1
    New Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    5
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 0/0
    Given: 0/0
    Rep Power
    0

    Buying and inductor to make a varitone

    Hi everybody!!!

    Just a little question. Could anybody tell me where I can buy and inductor to build a varitone?

    Thanks a lot in advance.

    Iván

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  2. #2
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Nashville TN
    Posts
    58
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 0/0
    Given: 0/0
    Rep Power
    11
    I don't know the value of the vari-tone inductor, but Torres Engineering offers a vari-tone kit for $15.95. If the inductor you need is a 1.5 henri, you can get it for $4.95 with the "Torres Famous Midrange Kit". If you find a better source for these, would you please post it?

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  3. #3
    Pickup Maker David Schwab's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Staten Island, NY
    Posts
    10,951
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 12/0
    Given: 6/0
    Rep Power
    27
    You can get inductors from any electronics part suppliers, like mouser, digikey, jameco, etc.

    You can also use audio transformers. The one from RadioShack works ok.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    It would be possible to describe everything scientifically, but it would make no sense; it would be without meaning, as if you described a Beethoven symphony as a variation of wave pressure. — Albert Einstein


    http://coneyislandguitars.com
    www.soundcloud.com/davidravenmoon

  4. #4
    New Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    5
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 0/0
    Given: 0/0
    Rep Power
    0

    Found one

    Hi,

    Thanks a lot for your help. I found this one in Mouser (I believe is the one Dan Torres uses to build his varitones):

    42TL021

    Will that be fine? The thing has six legs...to be honest I don´t know what to do with so many of them. Has any of you any idea of how to connect this?

    Thanks,

    Iván

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  5. #5
    Supporting Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    200
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 1/0
    Given: 0/0
    Rep Power
    12
    The data sheet is on the link you provided. There is a center tapped primary, and a center tapped secondary. Either use the entire primary, or the entire secondary, and never mind the center taps.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  6. #6
    Supporting Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    3,157
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 192/0
    Given: 0/0
    Rep Power
    17
    Quote Originally Posted by ivanmax View Post
    Hi,

    Thanks a lot for your help. I found this one in Mouser (I believe is the one Dan Torres uses to build his varitones):

    42TL021

    Will that be fine? The thing has six legs...to be honest I don´t know what to do with so many of them. Has any of you any idea of how to connect this?

    Thanks,

    Iván
    That transformer has a 3:1 turns ratio; thus, the inductance of the secondary is 1/9 that of the primary. Using half the primary would give you 1/4 the inductance of the whole primary. The inductance of the whole primary is probably about 1 Henry. I am just guessing that based on the 300 Hz low frequency spec and the primary impedance (4K). Probably you want to use the whole primary.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  7. #7
    Pickup Maker David Schwab's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Staten Island, NY
    Posts
    10,951
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 12/0
    Given: 6/0
    Rep Power
    27
    In the book Electronics Projects for Musicians, Craig Anderton uses Mouser part 42TM-019 for the inductor. He uses the whole primary, and also has a switch at the tap for half the primary.

    The inductor in the Gibson L6-S was a 1/4" steel bolt, with three washer and a nut! They wound two coils between the washers so it was humbucking.

    I have the specs around somewhere, but it isn't hard to make.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    It would be possible to describe everything scientifically, but it would make no sense; it would be without meaning, as if you described a Beethoven symphony as a variation of wave pressure. — Albert Einstein


    http://coneyislandguitars.com
    www.soundcloud.com/davidravenmoon

  8. #8
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Nashville TN
    Posts
    58
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 0/0
    Given: 0/0
    Rep Power
    11
    Although I've used these things for years, my understanding of them is a little foggy. If I were using a 1.5h inductor, a .033uf capacitor, and a 250k pot, which component (or combination thereof) would determine the frequency of the cut? Which would determine the depth? I don't have a strong background in math. If someone could explain it in layman's terms it would be greatly appreciated.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  9. #9
    Pickup Maker David Schwab's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Staten Island, NY
    Posts
    10,951
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 12/0
    Given: 6/0
    Rep Power
    27
    I found this one on the 'net somewhere. This is for a standard Gibson 6-position Varitone:

    Position 1--> off
    Position 2--> -5db at 1950hz
    Position 3--> -12db at 1100hz
    Position 4--> -16db at 620hz
    Position 5--> -18.5db at 360hz
    Position 6--> -21db at 120hz

    Position 5 used a .03 cap.

    The L-6S guitar used a pot instead of a switch, and a .01 cap.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    It would be possible to describe everything scientifically, but it would make no sense; it would be without meaning, as if you described a Beethoven symphony as a variation of wave pressure. — Albert Einstein


    http://coneyislandguitars.com
    www.soundcloud.com/davidravenmoon

  10. #10
    New Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    5
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 0/0
    Given: 0/0
    Rep Power
    0

    Just bought a Torres one

    Hi,

    Well, I have just bought a Torres kit to make a varitone. When I got it I will post the value of the inductor here. Actually I believe he uses a small transformer.

    Regards and thanks,

    Iván

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  11. #11
    Old Timer RedHouse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Pacific NW - USA
    Posts
    1,777
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 0/0
    Given: 0/0
    Rep Power
    16
    Quote Originally Posted by ivanmax View Post
    Hi,

    Well, I have just bought a Torres kit to make a varitone. When I got it I will post the value of the inductor here. Actually I believe he uses a small transformer.

    Regards and thanks,

    Iván
    So what did it turn out to be?

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  12. #12
    New Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    5
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 0/0
    Given: 0/0
    Rep Power
    0

    Transformer

    Hi,

    It is a small transformer with the following writing on its body:

    TL021-R

    You can find these ones in Mouser.

    Regards,

    Iván

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  13. #13
    Supporting Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    200
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 1/0
    Given: 0/0
    Rep Power
    12
    I measured a Radio Shack miniature output transformer (10K/8ohms) and the primary came out to .8H @ 1KHz. At 120Hz = 2.1H. Obviously, it will vary with frequency, but for anything in the right range, the cap used with the inductor is the part to experiment with. I'm using this set-up with a Telecaster in the neck position, approximating the Varitone 'Position 4'.
    The middle position = neck only and the back = Broadcaster Blender (Lollar CC set). Cool, cool, cool.....

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  14. #14
    New Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    1
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 0/0
    Given: 0/0
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by thumbs View Post
    Although I've used these things for years, my understanding of them is a little foggy. If I were using a 1.5h inductor, a .033uf capacitor, and a 250k pot, which component (or combination thereof) would determine the frequency of the cut? Which would determine the depth? I don't have a strong background in math. If someone could explain it in layman's terms it would be greatly appreciated.
    Sorry to raise a dead thread, but I couldn't help myself because this question needed to be answered. The capacitor wired in series with the inductor creates a resonant frequency of a certain value. THe equation is

    ƒ=1/ 2π(√CI)

    where ƒ is the frequency, C is capacitance, and I is inductance. you can go to Wolfram|Alpha
    and search "resonant frequency" for a calculator that will allow you to determine your various noth filters based on your inductor and whichever capacitors you choose. In order to vary the depth of the notch, wire the whole thing up to the tone control as if it was a single capacitor instead of a wad of components. Turning your tone control should vary the depth of the notch.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  15. #15
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Nashville TN
    Posts
    58
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 0/0
    Given: 0/0
    Rep Power
    11
    dovedescending, thank you for your post and the link. I've built a number of these filters either "by ear" or by copying someone elses design. It will be fun to try again, going for a specific result.

    thanks again'

    thumbs

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  16. #16
    New Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    1
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 0/0
    Given: 0/0
    Rep Power
    0

    Varitone inductor

    The original varitone circuit appeared in the Gibson ES355 Stereo in the early sixties. The value was 7 Henrys. The ones that everybody is using to make varitones are too low in inductance and the DCR is too high so they don't have the notch depth that the original Gibson circuit had. I'm an electronic engineer and had a company wind some custom for me a few years ago. I still have one or two left somewhere but I can't remember who the vendor was. I'm going to check with some of the makers of power torroids adn will post a source if I find one.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  17. #17
    Old Timer
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Just south of Bawlmer, Merlin
    Posts
    2,671
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 370/6
    Given: 364/1
    Rep Power
    13

    Zombie transformers?

    Quote Originally Posted by dovedescending View Post
    Sorry to raise a dead thread...
    This may be a redundant post; it didn't show up for a while after I thought I submitted it the first time. I don't know forum etiquette regarding old threads, or whether anyone will see this, but here goes:

    Can someone tell me if this shielded inductor would work for the Varitone application? It would be going into an Epi Dot (can't shield the control cavity if there is none).

    429-7202-RC Xicon Audio & Signal Transformers

    Thanks.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  18. #18
    Old Timer
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    5,124
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 102/0
    Given: 63/0
    Rep Power
    19
    We've been discussing the value of the chokes here and in another thread, this week I just measured a pair of chokes in a 1966 ES-355 Stereo.

    They both measured in at 15.5-16 H and measured about 760 ohms. This was completely removed from the circuit.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  19. #19
    Old Timer RedHouse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Pacific NW - USA
    Posts
    1,777
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 0/0
    Given: 0/0
    Rep Power
    16
    Quote Originally Posted by 52 Bill View Post
    We've been discussing the value of the chokes here and in another thread, this week I just measured a pair of chokes in a 1966 ES-355 Stereo.

    They both measured in at 15.5-16 H and measured about 760 ohms. This was completely removed from the circuit.
    What did the core look like? did you happen to take a pic?

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  20. #20
    Old Timer
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    5,124
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 102/0
    Given: 63/0
    Rep Power
    19
    The chokes are encased in metal cans that are soldered closed. Then the two cans are soldered to a small "U"-channel that screws down in the space beneath the bridge pickup.

    Although I did think about it, as the guitar was not mine, I didn't want to try and unsolder the cans or open them either.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  21. #21
    Pickup Maker David Schwab's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Staten Island, NY
    Posts
    10,951
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 12/0
    Given: 6/0
    Rep Power
    27
    Quote Originally Posted by RedHouse View Post
    What did the core look like? did you happen to take a pic?
    Here's the inductor from the Ripper (L9-S) bass which was also used in the L6-S guitar. It's made from a steel bolt, some washers and a nut!

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	ripper-wiringBIG.jpg 
Views:	4944 
Size:	50.0 KB 
ID:	10332

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    It would be possible to describe everything scientifically, but it would make no sense; it would be without meaning, as if you described a Beethoven symphony as a variation of wave pressure. — Albert Einstein


    http://coneyislandguitars.com
    www.soundcloud.com/davidravenmoon

  22. #22
    Old Timer RedHouse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Pacific NW - USA
    Posts
    1,777
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 0/0
    Given: 0/0
    Rep Power
    16
    I remember that pic David, thanks again.

    I was wondering if the "quality" improved with the ES series varitone (if you know what I mean).

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  23. #23
    New Member
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    2
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 0/0
    Given: 0/0
    Rep Power
    0
    Sorry to reply to such an old thread... but did you ever find out how to build the inductor for the Gibson L6-S? I have bought a Torres, but would much rather make one myself. Thanks for whatever help you can give me.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  24. #24
    New Member
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    1
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 0/0
    Given: 0/0
    Rep Power
    0

    Radioshack

    First post here,
    Which Radioshack transformer would work as an inductor for a mid-cut? I'm having trouble finding anywhere that sells inductors(especially large ones), and would like to not have to pay shipping.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  25. #25
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    3,891
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 220/2
    Given: 23/0
    Rep Power
    18
    (removed)

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  26. #26
    Member bea's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Germany, FRA
    Posts
    278
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 28/0
    Given: 1/0
    Rep Power
    10

    Note on XIRCON Inductors

    Hi there, just a quick note on the cheap Xircon transformers: i used one of the TL series (i.e., with a small IE14 core) in a Varitone of an Epiphone EB3. They are driven into (iron) saturation, at least if the circuit is undamped, especially if the notch frequency is low. Well, an efficient method to build a passive fuzz, but that's not what i intended. I did not try the larger TM-series, but if i was to build a varitone a 2nd time i would use that.

    Beate

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  27. #27
    Member RoadToNever's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Malmö, Sweden
    Posts
    47
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 0/0
    Given: 0/0
    Rep Power
    0
    What about the Xircon 429-series shielded and epoxy encapsulated cubes? Wouldn't these be better for guitar applications?

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  28. #28
    Member bea's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Germany, FRA
    Posts
    278
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 28/0
    Given: 1/0
    Rep Power
    10
    Larger EI-19 core, otherwise similar specs. Chances are good they are better suited - i did not try until now.

    BTW: core saturation affects low frequencies earlier than higher ones. So a bass is more demanding in this respect than a guitar.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  29. #29
    Member RoadToNever's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Malmö, Sweden
    Posts
    47
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 0/0
    Given: 0/0
    Rep Power
    0
    Very interesting, bea. Do you mean the 429 series have iron load as well or no? I'm using a Bill Lawrence Q-filter as inductor with a cap and pot for variable mid cut. This setup has worked well with no audible distortions on guitar(1.8H) and bass(3.0H) but I'm hoping to source a common part for future projects.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  30. #30
    Member bea's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Germany, FRA
    Posts
    278
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 28/0
    Given: 1/0
    Rep Power
    10
    Like every other transformer it can be driven into saturation. I do not dare to judge wether this larger transformer is sufficent (but there are success stories, especially in this forum). So it might be worth to give it a try.

    Currently i am considering to make the bass active, mainly in order to decouple the two pickups - the low impedance mudbucker dampens the bridge PU too much if both are run parallel. Given that, a PI-Filter (like that of the AMZ tone control, possibly passive) would be a more useful alternative adding much more versatility to the instrument than a passive notch filter.

    Beate

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  31. #31
    Member RoadToNever's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Malmö, Sweden
    Posts
    47
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 0/0
    Given: 0/0
    Rep Power
    0
    Maybe I'll try one of each series for future projects, they're not terribly expensive parts. I'd tip you off about using resistors in series with each pickup for a decoupling effect except that mudbucker is some monster in terms of inductance. The trick works pretty well on lower impedance pickups, though. David Schwab will have a thing of two to say about individual buffer circuits btw, he's a big fan of them.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  32. #32
    New Member
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    2
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 0/0
    Given: 0/0
    Rep Power
    0

    Making my own inductor...

    Since this thread seems active again I wonder if maybe someone has an answer for me. Can someone describe how I'd go about building my own inductor for an L6-S? Like wire spec, # turns, core diameter, etc. Someone earlier that it was simple to make... I'd like to give it a try.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  33. #33
    Pickup Maker David Schwab's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Staten Island, NY
    Posts
    10,951
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 12/0
    Given: 6/0
    Rep Power
    27
    Quote Originally Posted by hpj View Post
    Since this thread seems active again I wonder if maybe someone has an answer for me. Can someone describe how I'd go about building my own inductor for an L6-S? Like wire spec, # turns, core diameter, etc. Someone earlier that it was simple to make... I'd like to give it a try.
    If you look at the photo I posted of the L9-S Ripper bass, you can see that the inductor for that and the L6-S is a 1/4" steel bolt, a nut and three washers. I know someone that rewound one, but unfortunately he didn't keep notes. I'd think if you look up info on winding wah pedal inductors, it should follow suite as far as wire gauge. The L6-S inductor was wired up as a humbucker with the two halves separated by the middle washer.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    It would be possible to describe everything scientifically, but it would make no sense; it would be without meaning, as if you described a Beethoven symphony as a variation of wave pressure. — Albert Einstein


    http://coneyislandguitars.com
    www.soundcloud.com/davidravenmoon

  34. #34
    New Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    4
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 0/0
    Given: 0/0
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by bea View Post
    Larger EI-19 core, otherwise similar specs. Chances are good they are better suited - i did not try until now.

    BTW: core saturation affects low frequencies earlier than higher ones. So a bass is more demanding in this respect than a guitar.
    would the TU series with the EI-24 core be even better for bass? http://www.mouser.com/catalog/specsheets/XC-600133.pdf

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  35. #35
    Member bea's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Germany, FRA
    Posts
    278
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 28/0
    Given: 1/0
    Rep Power
    10
    Yes, probably, but possibly also no - have a look at the frequency response: it looks as if the core had pretty large losses at low frequencies. The size might also be a problem. At least in the Epiphone EB-3 it will be difficult to fit into the instrument without woodworking.

    My impression from the circuitry: it sounds totally different from an active notch filter and inferior, just dark and nothing else. The impedance of the circuitry outside the notch is too low and damps the pickups too much. Hence the inductivity must be chosen significantly larger than the 1.5 H i used. I recall the Gibsen themselves used L=8H, didn't they?

    BTW: larger inductivity means less current through the circuitry and less tendency toward saturation.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Where can I get an inductor for Power Brake?
    By Ralle in forum Music Electronics
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 11-16-2011, 11:32 AM
  2. caps for a varitone...
    By cigarboxboy in forum Guitar Tech
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 02-13-2009, 04:12 PM
  3. More varitone questions
    By billyboy in forum Guitar Tech
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 02-13-2009, 04:09 PM
  4. EQ inductor for old Fender
    By Enzo in forum Maintenance, Troubleshooting & Repair
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 03-15-2008, 12:46 AM
  5. Bass Varitone
    By iassael in forum Guitar Tech
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 10-14-2007, 09:02 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •