Results 1 to 16 of 16

Thread: Deville 410 Redplating Power Tubes

  1. #1
    Supporting Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    106
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 11/0
    Given: 6/0
    Rep Power
    0

    Deville 410 Redplating Power Tubes

    Hi all,

    The Deville had been running fine until this morning when I put in 2 new power tubes (NOS Russian 6L6's from the 50's). After a minute the amp starting loosing power so I immediately looked at the new power tubes and they were orangey....I shut down and pulled the tubes, and noticed that they were both loose in their own bases. I didn't notice whether they were loose when I put them in but I suspect they were. I put the old tubes back in and they now redplated as well. Any thoughts or suggestions to cure this problem. Thanks.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  2. #2
    Lifetime Member Enzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Lansing, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    32,125
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 1,871/7
    Given: 0/0
    Rep Power
    55
    There is a test point on the corner of the socket board, factory setting is 60mv. What does yours read? And did you adjust it with each set of tubes?

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Education is what you're left with after you have forgotten what you have learned.

  3. #3
    Old Timer
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Chill-Ville, VA
    Posts
    3,181
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 681/6
    Given: 1,328/9
    Rep Power
    18
    If these are NOS Russian "6L6"s from the 50s, any possibility that they are not 6L6GC spec and are closer to vintage 6L6G or real 5881 spec instead? Or that they are not an actual 6L6 at all, but rather sonething that would "compare" & "work like" a 6L6? If these things are from the 50s they're Soviet-era, not direct-fits like today.

    Just a theory...

    Justin

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    "Wow it's red! That doesn't look like the standard Marshall red. It's more like hooker lipstick/clown nose/poodle pecker red." - Chuck H. -
    "Of course that means playing **LOUD** , best but useless solution to modern sissy snowflake players." - J.M. Fahey -
    "All I ever managed to do with that amp was... kill small rodents within a 50 yard radius of my practice building." - Tone Meister -

  4. #4
    Supporting Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    106
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 11/0
    Given: 6/0
    Rep Power
    0
    Yes, I adjusted that voltage to 60mv for both pairs as the schematic required but the NOS pair still redplated. I just pulled both tubes and measured approx 490v at pins 3 & 4, the plate & screen respectively. The other 6 pins read 0v. Is that expected?

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  5. #5
    Supporting Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    106
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 11/0
    Given: 6/0
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Thomas View Post
    If these are NOS Russian "6L6"s from the 50s, any possibility that they are not 6L6GC spec and are closer to vintage 6L6G or real 5881 spec instead? Or that they are not an actual 6L6 at all, but rather sonething that would "compare" & "work like" a 6L6? If these things are from the 50s they're Soviet-era, not direct-fits like today.

    Just a theory...

    Justin
    I suppose there is a chance these aren't the "correct" 6L6 specs BUT I got them from my tube supplier who is very tube savvy. It's not the issue since as I previously stated, the old tube pair redplated when I put them back in. Something else is obviously responsible, just trying to figure out what that is.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  6. #6
    Lifetime Member Enzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Lansing, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    32,125
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 1,871/7
    Given: 0/0
    Rep Power
    55
    Pin 5 of the power tube sockets MUST have bias voltage roughly -50v.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Education is what you're left with after you have forgotten what you have learned.

  7. #7
    Supporting Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    106
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 11/0
    Given: 6/0
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Enzo View Post
    Pin 5 of the power tube sockets MUST have bias voltage roughly -50v.

    My mistake, I had the standby on. Once turned on, 5 read -55 and was adjustable from -49 to -57 so I set it at -50 with no power tubes. When I put the tubes in, TP bias point read 110 (not sure how it got that high!) I tried to lower it to 60 but the bias pot only let me go to 64mv. Still, that allowed me to put the old tubes back in with no redplating...but that still doesn't explain what happened. I don't understand%*!#

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  8. #8
    Supporting Member Randall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Cape Coral, FL
    Posts
    2,413
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 543/0
    Given: 99/0
    Rep Power
    9
    Can we work from the same schematic? I don't even see a bias adjust on the one I'm looking at? If you have - 50v+ on your pin 5, then it should be easy to figure out what's up.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    It's weird, because it WAS working fine.....

  9. #9
    Lifetime Member Enzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Lansing, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    32,125
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 1,871/7
    Given: 0/0
    Rep Power
    55
    I almost said something on that earlier. Is this a Hot Rod DeVille or a Blues DeVille? The original Blues DeVille had no adjust, but the re-issue Blues DeVille does, as do the Hot Rods.

    Perk, please resolder all the pins on the two power tube sockets. I would wager you could see little cracks if you looked, but even if not visible, solder them all anyway.

    1 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Education is what you're left with after you have forgotten what you have learned.

  10. #10
    Bent Member Chuck H's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    pacific north west
    Posts
    15,410
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 2,400/4
    Given: 2,775/0
    Rep Power
    30
    Quote Originally Posted by Perkinsman View Post
    ...measured approx 490v at pins 3 & 4, the plate & screen respectively. The other 6 pins read 0v. Is that expected?
    Quote Originally Posted by Perkinsman View Post
    My mistake, I had the standby on. Once turned on, 5 read -55
    Nope. Doesn't work like that. If the amp were in standby you would have read bias voltage and nothing else. The standby removes the plate and screen voltage and the bias supply is not dependent on the standby switch. So there must be an error in the reporting. I'm not being snarky, this is an important detail. It seems possible you DID have plate and screen volts with no bias voltage at some point. Which would have to mean the amp was NOT in standby when you measured for bias voltage and found none.

    Here is the schematic:

    https://schematicheaven.net/fenderam...od_deville.pdf

    3 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    "In fact when I run into problems working on electronic circuirts, there are so many times that when I finally track it down, the source of the problem is located between my soldering iron and my seat." SoulFetish

    "Now get off my lawn with your silicooties and boom-chucka speakers and computers masquerading as amplifiers" Justin Thomas

    "Being born on third base and thinking that you must have hit a triple is pure delusion!" Steve A

  11. #11
    Supporting Member nevetslab's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Burbank, CA
    Posts
    1,806
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 651/1
    Given: 1,481/1
    Rep Power
    11
    Quote Originally Posted by Perkinsman View Post
    Yes, I adjusted that voltage to 60mv for both pairs as the schematic required but the NOS pair still redplated. I just pulled both tubes and measured approx 490v at pins 3 & 4, the plate & screen respectively. The other 6 pins read 0v. Is that expected?
    Earlier in your post # 6, you were seeing the negative bias voltage on pin 5, yet here, it being the 'other 6 pins" with respect to pins 3 & 4, if you're now seeing 0V on pin 5, you WILL see your power tubes redplating, as they're turned on like gangbusters. Voltage at bias TP must be really high.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Logic is an organized way of going wrong with confidence

  12. #12
    Supporting Member The Dude's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Sioux Falls, SD
    Posts
    6,362
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 1,249/1
    Given: 968/1
    Rep Power
    16
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck H View Post
    Nope. Doesn't work like that. If the amp were in standby you would have read bias voltage and nothing else. The standby removes the plate and screen voltage and the bias supply is not dependent on the standby switch. So there must be an error in the reporting. I'm not being snarky, this is an important detail. It seems possible you DID have plate and screen volts with no bias voltage at some point. Which would have to mean the amp was NOT in standby when you measured for bias voltage and found none.

    Here is the schematic:

    https://schematicheaven.net/fenderam...od_deville.pdf
    ^^^^^^ That! Standby would remove B+, not bias V. I suspect you might have an intermittent connection in your bias supply circuit- maybe even the pot itself. I would leave the tubes out and monitor bias voltage at the tubes while chopsticking around the unit. Make sure bias V stays stable before reinstalling tubes.

    2 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    “Yeah, well, you know, that’s just, like, your opinion, man.”

  13. #13
    Supporting Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    106
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 11/0
    Given: 6/0
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Enzo View Post
    I almost said something on that earlier. Is this a Hot Rod DeVille or a Blues DeVille? The original Blues DeVille had no adjust, but the re-issue Blues DeVille does, as do the Hot Rods.

    Perk, please resolder all the pins on the two power tube sockets. I would wager you could see little cracks if you looked, but even if not visible, solder them all anyway.
    It's the HR Deville, I should have stated that...after resoldering all the power tube pins, it resolved the bias issue. I. Set at 60mv & calling it good. Thanks again guys!

    1 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  14. #14
    Supporting Member The Dude's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Sioux Falls, SD
    Posts
    6,362
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 1,249/1
    Given: 968/1
    Rep Power
    16
    FWIW: As a matter of course, when I pop the hood on a Hot Rod Deville, Deluxe, etc., I automatically resolder the output tube pins. It's a common enough problem to just take care of it- even if simply preventative maintenance.

    1 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    “Yeah, well, you know, that’s just, like, your opinion, man.”

  15. #15
    Bent Member Chuck H's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    pacific north west
    Posts
    15,410
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 2,400/4
    Given: 2,775/0
    Rep Power
    30
    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    FWIW: As a matter of course, when I pop the hood on a Hot Rod Deville, Deluxe, etc., I automatically resolder the output tube pins. It's a common enough problem to just take care of it- even if simply preventative maintenance.
    And... Since this was an issue with the bias supply, which is really important, you might just go ahead and do a nice clean flow on any solder joints related to bias supply circuit AND clean the tube sockets.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    "In fact when I run into problems working on electronic circuirts, there are so many times that when I finally track it down, the source of the problem is located between my soldering iron and my seat." SoulFetish

    "Now get off my lawn with your silicooties and boom-chucka speakers and computers masquerading as amplifiers" Justin Thomas

    "Being born on third base and thinking that you must have hit a triple is pure delusion!" Steve A

  16. #16
    Supporting Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    106
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 11/0
    Given: 6/0
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    FWIW: As a matter of course, when I pop the hood on a Hot Rod Deville, Deluxe, etc., I automatically resolder the output tube pins. It's a common enough problem to just take care of it- even if simply preventative maintenance.
    I'm starting to see that myself, thanks Dude!

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Volume drop after redplating tubes.
    By 92lx50 in forum Maintenance, Troubleshooting & Repair
    Replies: 47
    Last Post: 03-21-2015, 09:25 PM
  2. vintage Marshall 2203 HELP its been modded...redplating all 4 tubes
    By Smitty02 in forum Maintenance, Troubleshooting & Repair
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 11-03-2014, 06:54 PM
  3. Redplating Tubes in Dumble Clone
    By bobshbob1 in forum Maintenance, Troubleshooting & Repair
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 09-01-2013, 07:22 PM
  4. tubes redplating when signal applied
    By twilightofthedogs in forum Maintenance, Troubleshooting & Repair
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 02-20-2013, 03:26 AM
  5. Bad Cat Hot Cat 100/Redplating/eating o/p tubes
    By robertamp in forum Maintenance, Troubleshooting & Repair
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 03-09-2008, 01:19 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •