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Thread: Fender Tone Master Deluxe Reverb 100W Guitar Amp

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    Supporting Member TomCarlos's Avatar
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    Fender Tone Master Deluxe Reverb 100W Guitar Amp

    MEF Friends....

    A friend called me today to ask if I had any opinions on the Fender Tone Master Deluxe Reverb 100W 1x12 Guitar Combo amp. Up until today, I was unaware of such an amp. It is a Class D "modeling" amp... made to simulate the 22 watt Deluxe Reverb. This amp looks the same as the original (Blackface). It is much lighter due to the loss of the heavy transformers and being equipped with a NEO speaker. The Reverb and Vibrato are digital as well. But you will not see a "DSP" designation on the amp.

    The question posed to me... if this is a 100 watt amp, what is the deal with the dial on the back that starts at Full/22 watts and goes down to .2 watts? The only thing I could guess is the "simulated" sound of an amp working at full or partial power, the way the original sounded. So when in full, you would get the "sound" of the original deluxe but you have the benefit of a louder output since this amp is rated at 100 watts. So if you had breakup when the volume was at 5 (on the original amp), you will get the same sound if the setting is at Full but it will be louder. That is my guess.

    I've watched a couple YouTube videos but that question is not addressed.

    Do I have this right?

    Thanks, Tom

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    Supporting Member The Dude's Avatar
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    Guitar dot com says this about the Tone Master Deluxe Reverb and the Twin Reverb of the same series:

    "Interestingly, despite the maximum power setting on the back panels of both amplifiers being labelled as a vintage-correct 22 and 85-watts respectively, in order to simulate the punch of a valve power-amp, the Tone Master Deluxe Reverb delivers 100-watts into eight ohms and the Twin Reverb 200-watts into four ohms."

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    Oh, great... Now we'll start feeding the "TUBE WATTS ARE LOUDER THAN SOLID-STATE WATTS!" guys again...

    Haven't tried one, but I've heard lots of demos from "regular guys" (as in, not pro YouTube reviewers) & I'm pretty impressed. But I'm still not giving up my tube amps, as I see these as being subject to the same laws as computers... When it breaks, good luck. But they do have a valid place in the world.

    Justin

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    "Wow it's red! That doesn't look like the standard Marshall red. It's more like hooker lipstick/clown nose/poodle pecker red." - Chuck H. -
    "Of course that means playing **LOUD** , best but useless solution to modern sissy snowflake players." - J.M. Fahey -
    "All I ever managed to do with that amp was... kill small rodents within a 50 yard radius of my practice building." - Tone Meister -

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    Supporting Member The Dude's Avatar
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    Agree. Fender has a habit of running out of replacement DSP boards. I'd worry about the longevity of any Fender DSP equipped amp.

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    Master Destroyer nosaj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Thomas View Post
    Oh, great... Now we'll start feeding the "TUBE WATTS ARE LOUDER THAN SOLID-STATE WATTS!" guys again...

    Haven't tried one, but I've heard lots of demos from "regular guys" (as in, not pro YouTube reviewers) & I'm pretty impressed. But I'm still not giving up my tube amps, as I see these as being subject to the same laws as computers... When it breaks, good luck. But they do have a valid place in the world.

    Justin
    It's really hard to sway many who have played the Prosonic with its versatility.

    nosaj

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    Binkie McFartnuggets‏:If we really wanted to know the meaning of life we would have fed Stephen Hawking shrooms a long time ago.

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    Bent Member Chuck H's Avatar
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    Well the tube/SS power debate is really just a matter of circumstances and semantics (in that order). Because tubes are forgiving of being able to overdissipate when you combine it with equal intervals of underdissipation (my word, no one else can use it ) it's not uncommon to see tube amps used in audio programs produce a great deal more on peaks than their RMS rating. SS amps have a harder speed limit (as they are implemented, meaning that I don't know if the same same allowance could be exploited with transistors?). This characteristic combined with the fact that tubes run at high-ish voltages and tax the power supply makes for much "bouncier" performance by the power supply, which the tubes will tolerate. The only way to get the same NOMINAL power from a SS amp (as they are implemented) is to use generous wattage and have the anomalous tube amp behaviors programmed into the input signal.

    JM2C on that. This viewpoint has always settled the debate for me.

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    Last edited by Chuck H; 12-19-2019 at 02:09 AM.
    "In fact when I run into problems working on electronic circuirts, there are so many times that when I finally track it down, the source of the problem is located between my soldering iron and my seat." SoulFetish

    "Now get off my lawn with your silicooties and boom-chucka speakers and computers masquerading as amplifiers" Justin Thomas

    "Being born on third base and thinking that you must have hit a triple is pure delusion!" Steve A

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    I've seen a few of the modern Marshalls too, but there's enough demand for aftermarket makers to reproduce them, I believe... The JCM900s come to mind. But unless these Fenders get VERY popular, I doubt that would happen for them.

    I found a "mod" for the Vibro- & Super-Champs that basically guts the whole SS preamp out... I kinda figured that at least for the Vibro-Champ, there's an unused 12AX7 stage in there... How much could it cost to add a separate input & maybe 4 extra parts to use that triode as a gain stage & have a total bypass of all the FX, & you just get an all-tube Champ as an option...

    It's funny, there's a couple guys on the FB group I mod saying they can repair these because board swaps are easy... We're trying to explain that Fender won't have enough made except for the statistical warranty repair amount, & that it's a little bit of a bitch to do component-level repairs on a literal computer motherboard... Sure, it CAN be done, but any tech will likely say "throw it away & buy something else, cuz it ain't worth the labor."

    Oh well, such is life. I need to work on building my power tube stash.

    Justin

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    "Wow it's red! That doesn't look like the standard Marshall red. It's more like hooker lipstick/clown nose/poodle pecker red." - Chuck H. -
    "Of course that means playing **LOUD** , best but useless solution to modern sissy snowflake players." - J.M. Fahey -
    "All I ever managed to do with that amp was... kill small rodents within a 50 yard radius of my practice building." - Tone Meister -

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    Lifetime Member Enzo's Avatar
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    I think the argument premise is usually mis-stated. The claim is not that tube watts are louder than SS watts, the argument is that a "50 watt" tube amp will get louder than a "50 watt" SS amp. That is the real claim, regardless of which side one takes.

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    I sold mine... Don't tell Chuck!

    Justin

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    "Wow it's red! That doesn't look like the standard Marshall red. It's more like hooker lipstick/clown nose/poodle pecker red." - Chuck H. -
    "Of course that means playing **LOUD** , best but useless solution to modern sissy snowflake players." - J.M. Fahey -
    "All I ever managed to do with that amp was... kill small rodents within a 50 yard radius of my practice building." - Tone Meister -

  10. #10
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    Maybe HERE it's like that, but in FB-Land, it's literally SS watts ARE louser than tube watts! That's why my 15W amp is louder than my 100W stereo!" Nobody actually takes their stuff to a lab & measures. Perception is te only thing that matters...

    But yes, in my own perceived world, my 30W tube amp destroyed my 100W/Channel home stereo for sure.

    I wasn't trying to spark a debate with my comment, just been a fight I get tired of in the wider world.

    Justin

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    "Wow it's red! That doesn't look like the standard Marshall red. It's more like hooker lipstick/clown nose/poodle pecker red." - Chuck H. -
    "Of course that means playing **LOUD** , best but useless solution to modern sissy snowflake players." - J.M. Fahey -
    "All I ever managed to do with that amp was... kill small rodents within a 50 yard radius of my practice building." - Tone Meister -

  11. #11
    Lifetime Member Enzo's Avatar
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    I know you weren't. I myself tire of seeing that old debate being misapplied.

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    Supporting Member The Dude's Avatar
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    I agree- misapplied and full of misinformation. For one, a watt is a watt and a scientific measurement. There isn't a different calculation for each amp type. That doesn't mean that some manufacturers don't fudge power ratings.

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    Bent Member Chuck H's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Thomas View Post
    I sold mine... Don't tell Chuck!

    Justin
    Well I sold mine too I've built a couple of amps for myself that I do like even better, but certainly aren't as versatile overall. The Prosonic is definitely an amp with good tone for all it's modes. Not a one trick pony.

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    "In fact when I run into problems working on electronic circuirts, there are so many times that when I finally track it down, the source of the problem is located between my soldering iron and my seat." SoulFetish

    "Now get off my lawn with your silicooties and boom-chucka speakers and computers masquerading as amplifiers" Justin Thomas

    "Being born on third base and thinking that you must have hit a triple is pure delusion!" Steve A

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    Don't forget the joker g1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomCarlos View Post
    It is much lighter due to the loss of the heavy transformers and being equipped with a NEO speaker.
    I think this is what these are all about. Especially the Twin version. For the guys who need to know 'how much does it weigh?'. If they get even close to the sound with significant weight loss, they will sell.
    (the Tone Master Twin weights in at 33lbs. ! )

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    "Everything is better with a tube. I have a customer with an all-tube pacemaker. His heartbeat is steady, reassuring and dependable, not like a modern heartbeat. And if it goes wrong he can fix it himself. You can't do that with SMD." - Mick Bailey

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    Supporting Member TomCarlos's Avatar
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    Thanks for the replies....

    In lieu of the 22w, 12w, 5w, 1w, .5w, .2w dial, Fender might have been better off with dial reading 100%, 75%, 50%, 25%, 10%, etc. That is what Peavey did with their Transtube series. And when I turned that knob (Tdynamics), I could here what it was controlling - the point of breakup.

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    Old Timer olddawg's Avatar
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    Thereís a plethora of these type of amps coming out.. with and without DSP effects. Iím at the point that weight is an issue. Iíve been contemplating a Quilter for some time but am not quite ready to pull the trigger...

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    Bent Member Chuck H's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by olddawg View Post
    There’s a plethora of these type of amps coming out.. with and without DSP effects. I’m at the point that weight is an issue. I’ve been contemplating a Quilter for some time but am not quite ready to pull the trigger...
    You've mentioned this sort of thing more than once. Using new tech to reduce weight for working musicians. Seems practical and I can't argue that in the usual chaotic live circumstance that any real or perceived difference in tone makes less difference to the musician and almost certainly none to the audience, BUT...

    For me there's still an aesthetic missing. I agree that it's my problem and not necessarily anyone else's though. I'm still inclined to point out that a solid pine cabinet is pretty reasonable in weight and we now have neodymium speakers to load into them. A typical 15W/18W/20W type 2xel84 amp doesn't weight all that much. Add a "line out" or a mic for gigs where you need a bump from the PA. After that one might need, what, maybe three or four effects pedals? A dirt box, delay, chorus and a wha. At most I think. If you can't get it done with that then you're into a digital effects processor and an effects loop anyway. An effects loop can be built into the amp. And when I can't (amicably) haul a 1x12 solid pine 18W combo loaded with a neo speaker and three pedals to a gig anymore I probably have no business doing it anyway.

    You, OTOH, are probably going to keep doing this until you need a medical assistant with defibrillator on hand to escort you and your oxygen tank to the stage And god bless you for it too. When that happens please post video so we can hear what the Quilter sounds like in capable hands

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    "In fact when I run into problems working on electronic circuirts, there are so many times that when I finally track it down, the source of the problem is located between my soldering iron and my seat." SoulFetish

    "Now get off my lawn with your silicooties and boom-chucka speakers and computers masquerading as amplifiers" Justin Thomas

    "Being born on third base and thinking that you must have hit a triple is pure delusion!" Steve A

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    Mmm.

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    Last edited by minim; 12-28-2019 at 08:49 PM.

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    Old Timer olddawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck H View Post
    You've mentioned this sort of thing more than once. Using new tech to reduce weight for working musicians. Seems practical and I can't argue that in the usual chaotic live circumstance that any real or perceived difference in tone makes less difference to the musician and almost certainly none to the audience, BUT...

    For me there's still an aesthetic missing. I agree that it's my problem and not necessarily anyone else's though. I'm still inclined to point out that a solid pine cabinet is pretty reasonable in weight and we now have neodymium speakers to load into them. A typical 15W/18W/20W type 2xel84 amp doesn't weight all that much. Add a "line out" or a mic for gigs where you need a bump from the PA. After that one might need, what, maybe three or four effects pedals? A dirt box, delay, chorus and a wha. At most I think. If you can't get it done with that then you're into a digital effects processor and an effects loop anyway. An effects loop can be built into the amp. And when I can't (amicably) haul a 1x12 solid pine 18W combo loaded with a neo speaker and three pedals to a gig anymore I probably have no business doing it anyway.

    You, OTOH, are probably going to keep doing this until you need a medical assistant with defibrillator on hand to escort you and your oxygen tank to the stage And god bless you for it too. When that happens please post video so we can hear what the Quilter sounds like in capable hands
    Yeah.. thatís what Iím using now. Two channel 2x EL84 amp with one 12Ē and a pedal board... or a Super Champ and a multiple analog effects pedal at even lower volume situations.. And yeah.. I nearly died on stage already. Lol..

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    Bent Member Chuck H's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by olddawg View Post
    I nearly died on stage already. Lol..
    Tacking "Lol" on the end of that is, well, sort of horrifying. But I remember you sharing the experience here. Seriously, you're the real deal and if it makes you happy then do it forever. Or whatever that means for you. I've met a few guys like that and they always seemed to have NO questions about their priorities and were also engaged and happy in their element. These are things that many of higher station could covet.

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    "In fact when I run into problems working on electronic circuirts, there are so many times that when I finally track it down, the source of the problem is located between my soldering iron and my seat." SoulFetish

    "Now get off my lawn with your silicooties and boom-chucka speakers and computers masquerading as amplifiers" Justin Thomas

    "Being born on third base and thinking that you must have hit a triple is pure delusion!" Steve A

  21. #21
    Old Timer olddawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck H View Post
    Tacking "Lol" on the end of that is, well, sort of horrifying. But I remember you sharing the experience here. Seriously, you're the real deal and if it makes you happy then do it forever. Or whatever that means for you. I've met a few guys like that and they always seemed to have NO questions about their priorities and were also engaged and happy in their element. These are things that many of higher station could covet.
    Thanks Chuck! Iíll be doing 4 sets New Years Eve.. my routine after my usual weekly Enbrel injection and daily BP meds will be a Valium, a Vicodin (Iím no longer allowed Advil), one beer and one champagne. Iíll be declining shots all night!

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    Bent Member Chuck H's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by olddawg View Post
    I’ll be declining shots all night!
    Well, certainly not for the same reasons, but I always played sober at gigs. I kept a squat drink glass with a couple of ice cubes and water at my station. When people asked me what I was drinking I'd say "vodka rocks" and they'd bring me one. Which I summarily handed off to the drummer.

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    "In fact when I run into problems working on electronic circuirts, there are so many times that when I finally track it down, the source of the problem is located between my soldering iron and my seat." SoulFetish

    "Now get off my lawn with your silicooties and boom-chucka speakers and computers masquerading as amplifiers" Justin Thomas

    "Being born on third base and thinking that you must have hit a triple is pure delusion!" Steve A

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