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Fender Tone Master Deluxe Reverb 100W Guitar Amp

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  • Fender Tone Master Deluxe Reverb 100W Guitar Amp

    MEF Friends....

    A friend called me today to ask if I had any opinions on the Fender Tone Master Deluxe Reverb 100W 1x12 Guitar Combo amp. Up until today, I was unaware of such an amp. It is a Class D "modeling" amp... made to simulate the 22 watt Deluxe Reverb. This amp looks the same as the original (Blackface). It is much lighter due to the loss of the heavy transformers and being equipped with a NEO speaker. The Reverb and Vibrato are digital as well. But you will not see a "DSP" designation on the amp.

    The question posed to me... if this is a 100 watt amp, what is the deal with the dial on the back that starts at Full/22 watts and goes down to .2 watts? The only thing I could guess is the "simulated" sound of an amp working at full or partial power, the way the original sounded. So when in full, you would get the "sound" of the original deluxe but you have the benefit of a louder output since this amp is rated at 100 watts. So if you had breakup when the volume was at 5 (on the original amp), you will get the same sound if the setting is at Full but it will be louder. That is my guess.

    I've watched a couple YouTube videos but that question is not addressed.

    Do I have this right?

    Thanks, Tom

  • #2
    Guitar dot com says this about the Tone Master Deluxe Reverb and the Twin Reverb of the same series:

    "Interestingly, despite the maximum power setting on the back panels of both amplifiers being labelled as a vintage-correct 22 and 85-watts respectively, in order to simulate the punch of a valve power-amp, the Tone Master Deluxe Reverb delivers 100-watts into eight ohms and the Twin Reverb 200-watts into four ohms."
    "I took a photo of my ohm meter... It didn't help." Enzo 8/20/22

    Comment


    • #3
      Oh, great... Now we'll start feeding the "TUBE WATTS ARE LOUDER THAN SOLID-STATE WATTS!" guys again...

      Haven't tried one, but I've heard lots of demos from "regular guys" (as in, not pro YouTube reviewers) & I'm pretty impressed. But I'm still not giving up my tube amps, as I see these as being subject to the same laws as computers... When it breaks, good luck. But they do have a valid place in the world.

      Justin
      "Wow it's red! That doesn't look like the standard Marshall red. It's more like hooker lipstick/clown nose/poodle pecker red." - Chuck H. -
      "Of course that means playing **LOUD** , best but useless solution to modern sissy snowflake players." - J.M. Fahey -
      "All I ever managed to do with that amp was... kill small rodents within a 50 yard radius of my practice building." - Tone Meister -

      Comment


      • #4
        Agree. Fender has a habit of running out of replacement DSP boards. I'd worry about the longevity of any Fender DSP equipped amp.
        "I took a photo of my ohm meter... It didn't help." Enzo 8/20/22

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Justin Thomas View Post
          Oh, great... Now we'll start feeding the "TUBE WATTS ARE LOUDER THAN SOLID-STATE WATTS!" guys again...

          Haven't tried one, but I've heard lots of demos from "regular guys" (as in, not pro YouTube reviewers) & I'm pretty impressed. But I'm still not giving up my tube amps, as I see these as being subject to the same laws as computers... When it breaks, good luck. But they do have a valid place in the world.

          Justin
          It's really hard to sway many who have played the Prosonic with its versatility.

          nosaj
          soldering stuff that's broken, breaking stuff that works, Yeah!

          Comment


          • #6
            Well the tube/SS power debate is really just a matter of circumstances and semantics (in that order). Because tubes are forgiving of being able to overdissipate when you combine it with equal intervals of underdissipation (my word, no one else can use it ) it's not uncommon to see tube amps used in audio programs produce a great deal more on peaks than their RMS rating. SS amps have a harder speed limit (as they are implemented, meaning that I don't know if the same same allowance could be exploited with transistors?). This characteristic combined with the fact that tubes run at high-ish voltages and tax the power supply makes for much "bouncier" performance by the power supply, which the tubes will tolerate. The only way to get the same NOMINAL power from a SS amp (as they are implemented) is to use generous wattage and have the anomalous tube amp behaviors programmed into the input signal.

            JM2C on that. This viewpoint has always settled the debate for me.
            Last edited by Chuck H; 12-19-2019, 12:09 AM.
            "Take two placebos, works twice as well." Enzo

            "Now get off my lawn with your silicooties and boom-chucka speakers and computers masquerading as amplifiers" Justin Thomas

            "If you're not interested in opinions and the experience of others, why even start a thread?
            You can't just expect consent." Helmholtz

            Comment


            • #7
              I've seen a few of the modern Marshalls too, but there's enough demand for aftermarket makers to reproduce them, I believe... The JCM900s come to mind. But unless these Fenders get VERY popular, I doubt that would happen for them.

              I found a "mod" for the Vibro- & Super-Champs that basically guts the whole SS preamp out... I kinda figured that at least for the Vibro-Champ, there's an unused 12AX7 stage in there... How much could it cost to add a separate input & maybe 4 extra parts to use that triode as a gain stage & have a total bypass of all the FX, & you just get an all-tube Champ as an option...

              It's funny, there's a couple guys on the FB group I mod saying they can repair these because board swaps are easy... We're trying to explain that Fender won't have enough made except for the statistical warranty repair amount, & that it's a little bit of a bitch to do component-level repairs on a literal computer motherboard... Sure, it CAN be done, but any tech will likely say "throw it away & buy something else, cuz it ain't worth the labor."

              Oh well, such is life. I need to work on building my power tube stash.

              Justin
              "Wow it's red! That doesn't look like the standard Marshall red. It's more like hooker lipstick/clown nose/poodle pecker red." - Chuck H. -
              "Of course that means playing **LOUD** , best but useless solution to modern sissy snowflake players." - J.M. Fahey -
              "All I ever managed to do with that amp was... kill small rodents within a 50 yard radius of my practice building." - Tone Meister -

              Comment


              • #8
                I think the argument premise is usually mis-stated. The claim is not that tube watts are louder than SS watts, the argument is that a "50 watt" tube amp will get louder than a "50 watt" SS amp. That is the real claim, regardless of which side one takes.
                Education is what you're left with after you have forgotten what you have learned.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I sold mine... Don't tell Chuck!

                  Justin
                  "Wow it's red! That doesn't look like the standard Marshall red. It's more like hooker lipstick/clown nose/poodle pecker red." - Chuck H. -
                  "Of course that means playing **LOUD** , best but useless solution to modern sissy snowflake players." - J.M. Fahey -
                  "All I ever managed to do with that amp was... kill small rodents within a 50 yard radius of my practice building." - Tone Meister -

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Maybe HERE it's like that, but in FB-Land, it's literally SS watts ARE louser than tube watts! That's why my 15W amp is louder than my 100W stereo!" Nobody actually takes their stuff to a lab & measures. Perception is te only thing that matters...

                    But yes, in my own perceived world, my 30W tube amp destroyed my 100W/Channel home stereo for sure.

                    I wasn't trying to spark a debate with my comment, just been a fight I get tired of in the wider world.

                    Justin
                    "Wow it's red! That doesn't look like the standard Marshall red. It's more like hooker lipstick/clown nose/poodle pecker red." - Chuck H. -
                    "Of course that means playing **LOUD** , best but useless solution to modern sissy snowflake players." - J.M. Fahey -
                    "All I ever managed to do with that amp was... kill small rodents within a 50 yard radius of my practice building." - Tone Meister -

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I know you weren't. I myself tire of seeing that old debate being misapplied.
                      Education is what you're left with after you have forgotten what you have learned.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I agree- misapplied and full of misinformation. For one, a watt is a watt and a scientific measurement. There isn't a different calculation for each amp type. That doesn't mean that some manufacturers don't fudge power ratings.
                        "I took a photo of my ohm meter... It didn't help." Enzo 8/20/22

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Justin Thomas View Post
                          I sold mine... Don't tell Chuck!

                          Justin
                          Well I sold mine too I've built a couple of amps for myself that I do like even better, but certainly aren't as versatile overall. The Prosonic is definitely an amp with good tone for all it's modes. Not a one trick pony.
                          "Take two placebos, works twice as well." Enzo

                          "Now get off my lawn with your silicooties and boom-chucka speakers and computers masquerading as amplifiers" Justin Thomas

                          "If you're not interested in opinions and the experience of others, why even start a thread?
                          You can't just expect consent." Helmholtz

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by TomCarlos View Post
                            It is much lighter due to the loss of the heavy transformers and being equipped with a NEO speaker.
                            I think this is what these are all about. Especially the Twin version. For the guys who need to know 'how much does it weigh?'. If they get even close to the sound with significant weight loss, they will sell.
                            (the Tone Master Twin weights in at 33lbs. ! )
                            Originally posted by Enzo
                            I have a sign in my shop that says, "Never think up reasons not to check something."


                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Thanks for the replies....

                              In lieu of the 22w, 12w, 5w, 1w, .5w, .2w dial, Fender might have been better off with dial reading 100%, 75%, 50%, 25%, 10%, etc. That is what Peavey did with their Transtube series. And when I turned that knob (Tdynamics), I could here what it was controlling - the point of breakup.

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