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  • mixing board labor rates

    I don't really like working on mixers, they are big and cumbersome in my small shop, and are usually so labor intensive it's hard to know what to really charge for an all out cleaning. Today I did a Carvin 16 channel powered mixer, the one that comes with the rack case as part of the unit. Get this, 208 pots, 40 faders, 56 jacks, 118 switches and 36 screws. That is at least 422 squirts of DeOxit! And these were mostly "sealed" pots, so getting the stuff in there is a challenge in itself. I got it done, and problems solved, but it took me 4 hours. That's a lot of knobs and jack nuts to remove and replace. I don't feel comfortable charging $200 for a cleaning, so I charged him 3 hrs for $150, plus $10 extra for all the DeOxit (I usually add a $3 chemical charge for cleaner, swabs, solder, ties, wick, etc).

    I wonder what do other shops charge for mixers? I have seen one shop in the Tampa are that has a $200 minimum on mixers, I guess that both makes it worth it as well as discouraging smaller jobs. And I hardly even bother when someone brings in a low end Mackie w/fx that gave up at a gig. I tell them buy another one at Guitar Center, they are disposable AFAIAC, if it's anything other than a cleaning.
    It's weird, because it WAS working fine.....

  • #2
    Randall,
    I have one of those mixers here myself. It's a Mackie ST24.4 board. It's been sitting in the corner for months now. The customer has not contacted me concerning this. The board has a problem not associated with cleaning, but like you....I also charge $50 per hour, so a cleaning is expensive. In this case, there is an odd problem associated with a function called "rude solo". Quite a complicated board, and yes, like you, my work bench is a bit small for this, but I was able to rig it on the bench in such a way as to allow probing with my scope and meters. I found the "rude solo" issue illusive as of yet, thus, it's sitting in the corner while I get caught up with other work. The customer has actually been helping me with his very in depth knowledge in the usage of the board. Together we have still not been able to solve the problem, though many hours have already been spent. I'm at the point of simply giving up, and asking the customer to have Mackie personnel handle the problem. Not sure if I agree with you, Randall, concerning this board being a throw away situation...it's not your typical gigging type mixer, but a very large one that you would find in a recording studio. 32 channel, with lots of whistles and bells! Further frustration is all the surface mount components!

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    • #3
      I charged $60 an hour. In places like NYC, twice that is common. I tell people right up front it will be expensive. A large mixer can take a couple hours simply to check each function. it is about value, not amount. You can't take a five hour job and only charge three hours simply because "Gee that is a lot of money." If I take the car in for an oil change or a new air filter, I expect to pay $40 or something. If I take the car in for a valve job, or a new timing belt inside the engine, I expect to pay a lot more. I recently paid $700 for a new timing belt in the Lexus 6-cyl. (Actually the total bill was $666.)

      I did a large Mackie mixer overhaul for a local church. As I recall it was a large mixer, like 32 or 40 channels, plus an extender board of another 20-30 channels. SO it was like 60 channels, all with a zillion aux sends and returns. Subs and masters with all the assign buttons and such. Each channel had all the insert jacks, the XLR and line inputs. I counted something like 900 nuts that had to come off: a zillion 1/4" jack nuts, every single freaking pot. Hundreds of screws: every XLR had two plus all the board mounts on the panels etc. Of course hundreds of knobs, which I had to keep track of colors.

      Like many MAckies, it had ribbon cable woes. The kit of ribbons for it was $300 my cost, and I was a service center for them. I felt sorry for them and sold them the kit at my cost. My bill was $700. Every board in it had to come out to access the ribbons.

      I don't charge special for mixers, but I do have a minimum. Not to make it worthwhile, but to represent the labor intensive job. I need four hours, you pay for four hours. Plenty of times I do NOT charge for my own education. If it takes me two hours to figure out how to open some unit, I don't charge for that, the next one I see will only take minutes. I can have a Peavey Classic 30 apart on the bench, boards spread in under 10 minutes easily. The first time? HAlf an afternoon.

      I am very clear as to the cost, I let the customer decide if it is worth it.


      One thing I could not do without, a wheel table. It is a basic square table, four legs, on casters. I guess maybe 30" on a side. I put a slice of carpet on the top. I used it all the time. I would set a mixer (or a keyboard) on it in the center of my shop. I could then rotate it to any side. I sat there on my bench stool, if I wanted to see the back, a quick spin as I sat there et voila. Since testing I had to plug cords in and out of jack after jack on the rear, I took to checking mixers from the back. That way jacks were right in my lap, and I reached across the board to flip sliders. Trying to stuff a mixer of any size onto my bench makes me shudder just thinking of it.

      My table works for amps too. I could put a Fender Twin Reverb up there, twiddle with the controls etc. The spin it around to take the chassis out, Then I could grasp the chassis and turn on my stool with it to place it on the bench. No giant combo cab on the bench. I had one we bought from MCM, but we made one from plywood and 2x2s too.

      John, did you try calling tech support at Mackie? Get a concise description of your problem and see if they can suggest an approach or even a repair tip.
      Education is what you're left with after you have forgotten what you have learned.

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      • #4
        Enzo,
        What you describe is very similar to my experience with this Mackie. And I can relate with you concerning what to charge and what not to. I have always felt that my education is something the customer shouldn't have to pay for, so I try to come up with a fair price for what the job SHOULD take and the resultant cost. One of my basic desires is to be sure ALL customers leave with a smile, satisfied with the work I have done, and content with the price they paid me. I do not want anyone out there talking negatively about me. Such talk can spread very rapidly. And of course there is the old saying - do unto others. I do like your idea of a table with casters, although that doesn't work quite as well once I have my scope probes connected, power cord connected, signal generator connected, speakers connected, etc, etc,,,funny how, in no time, there is one heck of an umbilical cord! Let's face it, these huge mixers are a hassle no matter what!
        No, I never did consult with Mackie on this problem. Thank you for the idea. I will meet with the customer, and we'll write up a request and send it off to Mackie. Among other education, a sharper understanding of exactly how a certain circuit works would be a great help. In fact, we have already isolated the circuit in question in drawing form. At this point, I am no longer concerned with what the customer will pay me, and far more concerned with getting to the bottom of this problem!

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        • #5
          Again, make a clear concise description of the problem. They don't want to have to explain how their circuits work, they need to tell you the circuit areas likely at fault. They might say "this can happen if the such and such button gets stuck." I once had a tiny bit of solder short my PFL control line to some other circuit point so the PFL would never go off. All the PFL switches were fine, as was the entire PFL circuit, so the schematic was no help.

          My scope probes were usually the regular length, but I found some that were half again longer, and I use them. I sit at my bench turned to face the table. Scope probe over my shoulder. But when I am faced with that for more than one or two readings, I pluck my scope off the bench (or get out a backup) and set it on the floor next to my stool, facing up. Now I just glance down past my knee. And frankly that is less eye movement than looking up at my scope from the bench.

          My shop was laid out to serve me, and it did. Are there times when just nothing would be convenient? Of course. Mixers are huge. 88-key piano/synths are even longer.
          Education is what you're left with after you have forgotten what you have learned.

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          • #6
            "Not sure if I agree with you, Randall, concerning this board being a throw away situation..."

            Of course not, I meant the little cheapie offshore ones that crap out in a thunderstorm or on power up or for no reason at all. "I think I only paid $300 for it". Well, there you go.
            It's weird, because it WAS working fine.....

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            • #7
              I have had to tell customers before that my repair charge would cost more than the unit. The tiny little beginner amp that comes with a "Strat pack", and they broke it. They don't understand my bench minimum could buy two of them.
              Education is what you're left with after you have forgotten what you have learned.

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