Results 1 to 20 of 20

Thread: Angled pickups - humbucker setup

  1. #1
    CNC Trial by Fire kayakerca's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Ottawa, CANADA
    Posts
    789
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 28/0
    Given: 50/0
    Rep Power
    9

    Angled pickups - humbucker setup

    A custom guitar builder has asked me to build his some sort of humbucker that is angled to match the frets (30° in the case of the attached bobbin image, but 16° is the required). No problem with the construction IF I use alnico pole pieces like in a Strat. I have never built a set of straight up alnico based humbuckers (without a baseplate) and was hoping some of you have and could comment of the difference in tonal characteristics from a regular humbucker of similar spec's. Obviously I would have 2 of the attached bobbins side-by-side with the corner fillets removed from the side of each pickup where they make contact.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Angled Humbucker.JPG 
Views:	21 
Size:	33.6 KB 
ID:	57632

    Any comments on tonal differences would be much appreciated.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	angled bobbin 16 degrees.JPG 
Views:	18 
Size:	34.3 KB 
ID:	57631  

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Last edited by kayakerca; 04-01-2020 at 10:53 PM.
    Take Care,

    Jim. . .
    VA3DEF
    ____________________________________________________
    In the immortal words of Dr. Johnny Fever, “When everyone is out to get you, paranoid is just good thinking.”

  2. #2
    Supporting Member TomCarlos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Roseville, Ca.
    Posts
    915
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 193/0
    Given: 322/0
    Rep Power
    11
    Perhaps you can study the Seymour Duncan SH-4 JB Model Slant Humbucker Pickup as an example?

    1 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  3. #3
    CNC Trial by Fire kayakerca's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Ottawa, CANADA
    Posts
    789
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 28/0
    Given: 50/0
    Rep Power
    9
    Quote Originally Posted by TomCarlos View Post
    Perhaps you can study the Seymour Duncan SH-4 JB Model Slant Humbucker Pickup as an example?
    The SD SH-4 JB is a regular type humbucker (screws/slugs/baseplate/bar magnet) but with marginally stagger bobbins. I'm looking at the difference between that type of humbucker and a pair of bobbins with alnico pole pieces (no baseplate, no bar magnet, no screws, no slugs).

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Take Care,

    Jim. . .
    VA3DEF
    ____________________________________________________
    In the immortal words of Dr. Johnny Fever, “When everyone is out to get you, paranoid is just good thinking.”

  4. #4
    Supporting Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    3,226
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 2,355/1
    Given: 1,337/2
    Rep Power
    8
    Seymour Duncan made these in the 80s: https://reverb.com/item/11970491-sey...s-black-pickup

    Newer version has staggered mags: https://www.seymourduncan.com/pickup/stag-mag

    1 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Last edited by Helmholtz; 04-01-2020 at 11:43 PM.
    - Own Opinions Only -

  5. #5
    Supporting Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    3,171
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 198/0
    Given: 0/0
    Rep Power
    17
    You can use steel slugs with special spacings, etc. (if you want that sound) by putting a small neo magnet on the bottom of each slug instead of using a bar Alnico. Many sizes are available; I just tried it with rectangular magnets 3/8" by 3/16" by 1/16" thick (actually 2 with thickness 1/32") placed flat on each slug, magnetized in the direction of the slug axis. Field strength is close to the same as an SD SH2N I had sitting on the table.

    The Alnico rod version of the HB will have maybe half the inductance, lower loss (higher Q resonance), and a bit less output, probably. But more high frequencies.

    Quote Originally Posted by kayakerca View Post
    A custom guitar builder has asked me to build his some sort of humbucker that is angled to match the frets (30° in the case of the attached bobbin image, but 16° is the required). No problem with the construction IF I use alnico pole pieces like in a Strat. I have never built a set of straight up alnico based humbuckers (without a baseplate) and was hoping some of you have and could comment of the difference in tonal characteristics from a regular humbucker of similar spec's. Obviously I would have 2 of the attached bobbins side-by-side with the corner fillets removed from the side of each pickup where they make contact.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Angled Humbucker.JPG 
Views:	21 
Size:	33.6 KB 
ID:	57632

    Any comments on tonal differences would be much appreciated.

    1 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  6. #6
    Woodgrinder/Pickupwinder copperheadroads's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Iceburg Alley ,Newfoundland,CAN
    Posts
    2,173
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 50/1
    Given: 49/0
    Rep Power
    13
    If you wanted to do a baseplate
    this should work for a Nighthawk or fan fret guitar .Click image for larger version. 

Name:	thumb-109.OBBP005164E66m0_500x500.jpg 
Views:	27 
Size:	27.4 KB 
ID:	57666
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	thumb-109.OBBP005164E66m0_500x500.jpg 
Views:	34 
Size:	22.6 KB 
ID:	57665  

    1 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Last edited by copperheadroads; 04-02-2020 at 01:33 PM.
    "UP here in the Canada we shoot things we don't understand"

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    3,964
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 253/3
    Given: 31/0
    Rep Power
    19
    What you describe is sort of like a wide-range humbucker, but with alnico rather than cunife polepieces. A "normal" HB magnetically couples the two rows of slugs with the underlying bar magnet If one looks closely at a WRHB, the adjustable polepieces are not physically coupled to anything, even the baseplate. I would imagine the baseplate plays some sort of role, via all that ferromagnetic voodoo I don't know much about. But the holes for accessing the screwdriver slots in the "downward-facing" polepieces are big enough that the polepieces are only near the baseplate, without touching it. And, as near as I can deduce, the arrangement of having 3 polepieces on each coil face up, taking into consideration which 3, the purpose was to mimic a slanted pickup, as found on a Tele or Strat.

    So, if you want a sense of the resulting tone, some hint is given by the WRHB....minus the magnet type, polepiece height difference, etc.

    1 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  8. #8
    CNC Trial by Fire kayakerca's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Ottawa, CANADA
    Posts
    789
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 28/0
    Given: 50/0
    Rep Power
    9
    Thanks all for the input. I've got the flatwork cut out and ready to go. I machined a spacer to set the A5's. I machined a P90 baseplate to the 16° of perpendicular match for the flatwork (that came out pretty nice). Decided on a flatwork spacing of .360", about half way between a humbucker .25" and a Stat .4375" spacing. Didn't want it too fat like a humbucker or quite as cutting as Strat. Using .688" A5 rod magnets which gives me ~ .140" spacing between the bottom flatwork and the baseplate (basically the space that results from using .688" rod magnets). Probably wind to marginally over ~8k on the neck and ~ 10% more for the bridge. At the end of the day, Hopefully the luthier likes the tone enough that it is not just a one off.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Take Care,

    Jim. . .
    VA3DEF
    ____________________________________________________
    In the immortal words of Dr. Johnny Fever, “When everyone is out to get you, paranoid is just good thinking.”

  9. #9
    Senior Member RedHouse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Pacific NW - USA
    Posts
    1,780
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 4/0
    Given: 0/0
    Rep Power
    16
    kyakerca, if your question is about the tonal difference I can say a bit, I been making them for some years now.
    (humbuckers w/Alnico poles)

    They are brighter and a bit more dynamic, they don't have the semi-compressed tone that a normal Humbucker has. If your customer is looking for normal Humbucker tone this topology might not be for them.

    As for my own opinion, I was (at first) going to write-them-off as a worthy experiment but after playing them a while myself I noted they have their own merit and are actually quite useful to me. I have a set in one of my Strat's that has the HH layout, and my Uncle liked them so much, well, he now has a set in his HH strat too.

    1 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  10. #10
    CNC Trial by Fire kayakerca's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Ottawa, CANADA
    Posts
    789
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 28/0
    Given: 50/0
    Rep Power
    9
    Quote Originally Posted by RedHouse View Post
    kyakerca, if your question is about the tonal difference I can say a bit, I been making them for some years now.
    (humbuckers w/Alnico poles)

    They are brighter and a bit more dynamic, they don't have the semi-compressed tone that a normal Humbucker has. If your customer is looking for normal Humbucker tone this topology might not be for them.

    As for my own opinion, I was (at first) going to write-them-off as a worthy experiment but after playing them a while myself I noted they have their own merit and are actually quite useful to me. I have a set in one of my Strat's that has the HH layout, and my Uncle liked them so much, well, he now has a set in his HH strat too.
    That is what I was looking to hear. Not a Strat and not a humbucker. The luthier wanted a usable tone that was neither of those conventional tones necessarily. His electric guitar builds are extremely unique and he wanted unique tone in the pickups to go along with that (as well as some noise cancellation).

    Did you use metal baseplates? I have with these, at least this iteration of them. I reshaped a P90 baseplate to match the 16° the luthier requested for this fanned fret guitar build.

    Here is where I am at in the wind components to this point. I just laid the second bobbin set on its side to show the pole pieces out the bottom like a Tele neck pickup.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Angled Humbucker.jpg 
Views:	43 
Size:	247.2 KB 
ID:	57926

    I really appreciate your comments on the tonal characteristics Brad.

    1 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Last edited by kayakerca; 04-08-2020 at 08:33 PM.
    Take Care,

    Jim. . .
    VA3DEF
    ____________________________________________________
    In the immortal words of Dr. Johnny Fever, “When everyone is out to get you, paranoid is just good thinking.”

  11. #11
    ToneOholic! big_teee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Mid-South USA
    Posts
    11,828
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 1,090/32
    Given: 1,041/14
    Rep Power
    22
    I have a humbucker (not angled) that I made in my personal lefty test strat HSS.
    I took a couple 53 mm hum bobbins, modified them to take 187 rod mags.
    Made the height spacing taller, and made it splittable.
    It sounds like a good strat pickup split, and more like a hot JB when in HB mode.
    I just made the one, and never got past the prototype version.
    It sounded to good to take out, it is still in there.
    T
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	P1010121.JPG 
Views:	21 
Size:	458.0 KB 
ID:	57928  

    1 Not allowed! Not allowed!


    "If Wishes Were Horses, Beggars Would Ride!" Scottish Proverb 1600s
    Terry

  12. #12
    CNC Trial by Fire kayakerca's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Ottawa, CANADA
    Posts
    789
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 28/0
    Given: 50/0
    Rep Power
    9
    Quote Originally Posted by big_teee View Post
    I have a humbucker (not angled) that I made in my personal lefty test strat HSS.
    I took a couple 53 mm hum bobbins, modified them to take 187 rod mags.
    Made the height spacing taller, and made it splittable.
    It sounds like a good strat pickup split, and more like a hot JB when in HB mode.
    I just made the one, and never got past the prototype version.
    It sounded to good to take out, it is still in there.
    T
    Do you have a metal baseplate on the bottom T?

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Take Care,

    Jim. . .
    VA3DEF
    ____________________________________________________
    In the immortal words of Dr. Johnny Fever, “When everyone is out to get you, paranoid is just good thinking.”

  13. #13
    ToneOholic! big_teee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Mid-South USA
    Posts
    11,828
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 1,090/32
    Given: 1,041/14
    Rep Power
    22
    Yes, it has a metal baseplate.
    I don't remember if I modded the baseplate, or used one for 53mm bobbins.
    It has been a few years since I did it.
    I sawed the bobbins in two, and glued the magnets in the two bobbin halves.
    Not the ideal way to make one, but was a proto, and just wanted to see if I could make something I liked the sound of.
    T

    1 Not allowed! Not allowed!


    "If Wishes Were Horses, Beggars Would Ride!" Scottish Proverb 1600s
    Terry

  14. #14
    CNC Trial by Fire kayakerca's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Ottawa, CANADA
    Posts
    789
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 28/0
    Given: 50/0
    Rep Power
    9
    Well, the pickups are done and all packaged up for the customer.

    It was an interesting project and if they produce a usable tone, I'll add them to the offering. Not sure how that is going to turn out at this point as they will definitely be on the very low output side of things. I wound the neck to 7.6kΩ and the bridge to 7.8kΩ. However, the inductance was a little lower than I would have preferred with 2.3H and 2.4H for the neck and bridge respectively. Mike S. was definitely right about the inductance levels inherent in this design.

    The physical bobbin dimensioning to 16° for the fanned fret setup was pretty straight forward with the laser. Again, my only hope is that I end up with a usable tone.

    Here is a look at the final product.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	angled 16° a.jpg 
Views:	41 
Size:	504.5 KB 
ID:	58176 Click image for larger version. 

Name:	angled 16° b.jpg 
Views:	37 
Size:	439.9 KB 
ID:	58177Click image for larger version. 

Name:	angled 16° c.jpg 
Views:	39 
Size:	295.8 KB 
ID:	58199

    Thanks everyone for your input. It all helped.

    Udpate. . . Also added a shot of the progress of the ultimate destination sent to me by the luthier.

    2 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Last edited by kayakerca; 04-23-2020 at 05:06 PM.
    Take Care,

    Jim. . .
    VA3DEF
    ____________________________________________________
    In the immortal words of Dr. Johnny Fever, “When everyone is out to get you, paranoid is just good thinking.”

  15. #15
    CNC Trial by Fire kayakerca's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Ottawa, CANADA
    Posts
    789
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 28/0
    Given: 50/0
    Rep Power
    9
    So I have a little feedback on the pickup now. I asked the luthier to try the pickup in something before doing routing the guitar body for this one of a kind pickup (one of a kind by shape only). While the setup isn't the same as it would be in a shielded body, I take it as a win.

    Here are the guitar builders initial thoughts on the tone. . .

    "I am happy to report that the pickups are definitely usable. So far I've only tried the bridge pickup, coils in series, and of course it's probably sounding a bit different than ideal because of the way it's mounted (upside down, too far from the strings, completely unshielded). But my impression is that it has plenty of output. It seems to be pretty loud and quite bright, with a little bit of midrange "honk" that I quite enjoy. The noise level seems high, but that's probably because my impromptu rig has a lot of bare, unshielded wire hanging off it."

    Again, I'm counting this as a success. I will hopefully get an audio clip from the finished guitar when it is ready that I can share them hear for anyone interested in the tone from that configuration of a pickup.

    2 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Last edited by kayakerca; 05-14-2020 at 04:10 PM.
    Take Care,

    Jim. . .
    VA3DEF
    ____________________________________________________
    In the immortal words of Dr. Johnny Fever, “When everyone is out to get you, paranoid is just good thinking.”

  16. #16
    Senior Member RedHouse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Pacific NW - USA
    Posts
    1,780
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 4/0
    Given: 0/0
    Rep Power
    16

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  17. #17
    Supporting Member StarryNight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Victoria, BC Canada
    Posts
    432
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 12/0
    Given: 12/0
    Rep Power
    12
    Wow, nice bench!


    Quote Originally Posted by kayakerca View Post
    Well, the pickups are done and all packaged up for the customer.

    It was an interesting project and if they produce a usable tone, I'll add them to the offering. Not sure how that is going to turn out at this point as they will definitely be on the very low output side of things. I wound the neck to 7.6kΩ and the bridge to 7.8kΩ. However, the inductance was a little lower than I would have preferred with 2.3H and 2.4H for the neck and bridge respectively. Mike S. was definitely right about the inductance levels inherent in this design.

    The physical bobbin dimensioning to 16° for the fanned fret setup was pretty straight forward with the laser. Again, my only hope is that I end up with a usable tone.

    Here is a look at the final product.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	angled 16° a.jpg 
Views:	41 
Size:	504.5 KB 
ID:	58176 Click image for larger version. 

Name:	angled 16° b.jpg 
Views:	37 
Size:	439.9 KB 
ID:	58177Click image for larger version. 

Name:	angled 16° c.jpg 
Views:	39 
Size:	295.8 KB 
ID:	58199

    Thanks everyone for your input. It all helped.

    Udpate. . . Also added a shot of the progress of the ultimate destination sent to me by the luthier.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  18. #18
    CNC Trial by Fire kayakerca's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Ottawa, CANADA
    Posts
    789
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 28/0
    Given: 50/0
    Rep Power
    9
    Quote Originally Posted by StarryNight View Post
    Wow, nice bench!
    That bench shot is the luthier's shop. Mine looks more like a room full of pickup parts and a winder.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Take Care,

    Jim. . .
    VA3DEF
    ____________________________________________________
    In the immortal words of Dr. Johnny Fever, “When everyone is out to get you, paranoid is just good thinking.”

  19. #19
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    256
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 6/0
    Given: 16/0
    Rep Power
    10
    Hi Jim,

    could you have gone down the path of using Maple for the bobbin construction like these P90 kits

    https://www.stewmac.com/kits-and-pro...er-bobbin.html

    https://www.stewmac.com/articles-and...le-bobbin.html

    Cheers
    Steve

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  20. #20
    CNC Trial by Fire kayakerca's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Ottawa, CANADA
    Posts
    789
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 28/0
    Given: 50/0
    Rep Power
    9
    Quote Originally Posted by Lyrebird Steve View Post
    Hi Jim,

    could you have gone down the path of using Maple for the bobbin construction like these P90 kits

    https://www.stewmac.com/kits-and-pro...er-bobbin.html

    https://www.stewmac.com/articles-and...le-bobbin.html

    Cheers
    Steve
    That is how I make my P90 bobbins on the laser cutter, with the maple 1/4" core piece. It works well for the P90 bobbins.

    I was originally thinking about that setup for the 16° pickups, but opted not to for a number of reasons, the most important was that the luthier wanted a humbucker pickup that didn't sound like a traditional humbucker pickup. I also didn't want to do a screw side/slug side humbucker as I was concerned with the size I would have to make the slug side core to accommodate the larger slugs (relative to a P-90 screw core size). I was worried it might have to be thicker than would work nicely as there would be less surface wood on the core to make sure there was a significant amount of surface to glue to the top and bottom flatwork. The pole piece spacing is non standard because of the stretching out of the spacing required by having the pickup on an angle, so I would need to make custom keepers. It would also have required a one off drilled baseplate (which wouldn't be a huge deal) for the screw pole pieces. All that to say I went with a pair of rod magnet single coil design pickups put together as a humbucker.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Last edited by kayakerca; 05-20-2020 at 06:36 PM.
    Take Care,

    Jim. . .
    VA3DEF
    ____________________________________________________
    In the immortal words of Dr. Johnny Fever, “When everyone is out to get you, paranoid is just good thinking.”

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Nut slots-angled or straight?
    By ronh in forum Guitar Tech
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 12-04-2016, 11:28 AM
  2. Angled claw?
    By tedmich in forum Guitar Tech
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 04-12-2016, 04:30 AM
  3. Replies: 9
    Last Post: 12-19-2012, 02:09 AM
  4. Modern Gibson Thunderbird Pickups Specs? (Humbucker?)
    By PoorMan in forum Pickup Makers
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 05-26-2011, 03:12 AM
  5. Setup for recording bass pickups.
    By mickmutante in forum Pickup Makers
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 04-22-2011, 01:15 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •