Sealing tweed cabinet

[Steve A.]

I remember reading directions here years ago about sealing a tweed 5E3 cabinet with Minwax... Just wondering if anyone has any tips about doing this. Like which color(s) to buy, how many coats and how long should each one dry, do you sand between coats, etc.? I think I like the darker looking varnished tweed...

Thanks!

Steve Ahola

http://www.blueguitar.org/

http://www.myspace.com/steveahola

[TD_Madden]

Steve,

I used "amber shellac" when I did my cabs, but FIRST use CLEAR to seal the seams and overlaps...other wise they will be darker.

As I recall, I used three coats, with light steel-wool sanding between each, and a final coat of old-fashioned paste-wax to protect it.

YM, of course, MV.

[sportster4eva]

TD is on the button. One coat of clear to seal the edges, then amber to give it the right shade. I use a mix of 1/3 amber to 2/3 clear for mine, because the straight amber is sometimes too orange.

[TD_Madden]

I also cut the amber 50/50 with denatured alcohol.

[Steve A.]

So the "shellac" would be Zinnser Bullseye Shellac, starting with Clear and finishing with Amber?

So what is the best way to clean the tweed first? And roughly how long does each coat take to dry? I'm trying to figure out a schedule for the work...

Thanks for all of the tips!

Steve Ahola

P.S. I found an old AMPAGE thread from 2001 on my computer and printed it out. So I'm looking for it again and will post the text when I find it. Here 'tis:

From: Tom S
Date: 9/23/2001 8:07 PM
Subject: Re: Any tips on lacquering tweed?

Most use Bullseye amber shellac cut 50/50 with denatured alcohol. Others recommend Minwax honey oak? polyurethane. Both will "age" it several
shades.

I put four coats of shellac on mine. Buffed it lightly with 0000 steel wool in between coats. Could probably use more coats. Used a brush. Apply
evenly and be careful with the areas where the tweed overlaps and other edges so that the shellac doesnt soak in too much and make it darker than
the rest.

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From: Mike C.
Date: 9/24/2001 3:30 PM
Subject: Re: Any tips on lacquering tweed?

Steve,
On my 1st T. Deluxe I used the Minwax Polyshades satin honeypine, it looks quite a bit lighter than the bulleyes shellac/denatured alcohol(50/50) that
I put on my 2nd T. Deluxe, which Tom mentioned. The shellac seemed to be easier and goes on alot smoother and evenly (or I was more
relaxed)than the Minwax. I used a brush, but spraying might be easier. Be sure that you open up the doors and windows, makes you high as a kite if
you don't( experience). I went w/the "grain" of the tweed and it does soak it up on the 1st coat, it takes a couple of coats before it starts looking
good. Also be carefull with edges of the cab where it rounds over, it gets dark easier than the rest, in my experience. I have also heard it is good to
put a clear coat over the finished cab, as the shellac will deterioate with time.
I hope this helps,
Mike

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From: Steve A.
Date: 10/2/2001 12:39 AM
Subject: Re: Any tips on lacquering tweed?


Mike:

I have also heard it is good to put a clear coat over the finished cab, as the shellac will deterioate with time.

Any recommendations for what to use for the clear coat?

--Thanks for all of your tips!

Steve Ahola

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From: Mike C.
Date: 10/3/2001 10:53 PM
Subject: Re: Any tips on lacquering tweed?

I use an oil based semi-gloss polyurethane for the final coat.

Mike

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From: Tom S
Date: 10/3/2001 11:07 PM
Subject: Re: Any tips on lacquering tweed?

I used 3 applications of Johnsons paste wax.

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From: Doc
Date: 10/4/2001 7:15 PM
Subject: Re: Any tips on lacquering tweed?

You can use clear lacquer. Gallons are available at home depot.

The original amps used clear lacquer over the bare tweed cloth. Enough coats were applied to "fill in" all the depressions in the weave, giving a
smooth, even glossy appearance. Lacquer can be safely painted on top of shellac, and won't dissolve it. (Shellac is commonly used as a sealer over
various finishes or colorants to prevent bleeding into top coats of lacquer or other paint containing strong solvents.) Many have reported good results
with some of the brush-on amber tinted urethane finishes to coat the tweed on recent Fender amps (and home built amps), to give them a nice warm
aged look. My experience with brush-on polyurethane finishes on wooden items around the home isn't good. The coating is like a discrete "skin", and
tends to lift away here and there after a few years. Maybe the newer generation of products products have made this problem go away. I'm still afraid
of multiple single coats of urethane products, so I havent't used any on my amps yet. I have examined tweed amps like Victoria's and others that were
done using tinted urethane, and the finish is top notch. The amps are still relatively new. You can't patch repair the poly stuff. So, one more reason I
prefer lacquer. You can always patch & blend.

The newer Fender tweed amps (and custom shop instrument cases) already have some kind of clear paint in the cloth to seal it, resulting in a
non-gloss finish that doesn't soil easily unless the cloth surface is abraded*. (*I've seen some really raggedy looking Blues Deluxe amps at gigs. Some
people just don't take care of their equipment. A good friend had one which had flaps of cloth hanging off!) It's easy to tell there's a sealant applied
because the tweed isn't soft and cloth-like anymore. You can paint just about anything on top of this stuff without worrying if it's going to wick into the
cloth, because it's already sealed.

I'm satisfied with the color of my Blues Jr with two coats of amber shellac. It needs to be smoother & somewhat glossy to look "real" vintage. I plan
to spray on mucho lacquer next time I tear it all apart. I think that automotive acrylic lacquer would hold up better because it's tougher, more flexible.
But the nitro furniture lacquer was good enough for Leo, and that's what you're looking at when inspecting a beat up old Deluxe. They were finished
same way as suitcases from that period.

It's a pain spraying a finished cabinet. All the flat black painted interior wood has to be masked. That big chrome data plate on the rear panel (Blues
Jr, Blues Deluxe, etc.) needs to be either removed or carefully masked.

I guess you could use urethane, but when it chips it doesn't look so good. Hard to describe, but the edges all around the opening become somewhat
lifted, and appear as it's shedding a layer of skin. If you bang it around transporting to gigs that's one thing, but if you just keep it home in the living
room it won't ever get scarred. Lacquer scrapes & chips, too, but the edges aren't so noticable, and you can spray on more or just spray a little
thinner to melt it down again.

Oh well, that's my two cents.
-Doc

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From: Mike C.
Date: 10/4/2001 7:39 PM
Subject: Re: Any tips on lacquering tweed?

Doc,

Thanks for all the info, it is great to see how much knowledge there is around here, I truly appreciate it.

Mike

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From: KB
Date: 10/4/2001 8:32 PM
Subject: Re: What about water stains


That was .03 cents Doc. Not to barg in on Steves post here but can you do anything to take out water stains. This tweed has water marks about a
1/4 up and it looks like crap. The tweed is in great shape just looks bad. Would a coat of Laquer or Polyshade cover it up.,

KB

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From: KB
Date: 10/5/2001 1:56 PM
Subject: Re: Any tips on lacquering tweed?


The Parks IMO is an excellent product and the 50/50 mix is known as a presealer and you can also buy it already mixed in a product called BIX
prestain sealer. The 0000 is going to leave burrs in between the tweed and you will have to use a tack cloth to get it out and it will leave it sticky.
Maybe 600 wet and dry may be a better option. I think Parks does make a laquer in the can and brushing will depend on your experience and the
type of brush you use. Purdy's are the best and of course a bristle not nylon. IMO I'd leave the exposed pine as is, maybe others will differ. FWIW I
worked in a paint store for 10 years and know the products pretty well. Spraying it IMO would be the best looking but brushing it will give you better
coverage.,

KB

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From: Mike C
Date: 10/5/2001 2:53 PM
Subject: Re: Any tips on lacquering tweed?


Steve,
My first amp I tinted the inside of the cab and I don't think it looks as good as my latest cabs w/o the inside tinted. Good luck on your project, let us
know how it turns out.

Mike

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From: Bernd
Date: 10/5/2001 3:27 PM
Subject: Re: Any tips on lacquering tweed?

Hi guys,

shellac is usually solved in ethanole so there is a certain danger with alcoholic drinks - some stains on the surface may destroy the shellac film if used
as a top coat. A simple nitrocellulose lacquer would be more resistant and also easy to handle. (I'm not sure if they are also common in the USA)
(hope I didn't misunderstand what you want although I'm not familiar with fender amps)

Bernd

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[sportster4eva]

When you see how fast the stuff dries you'll be like HOLY S#$%!!
It only takes like 10 minutes before its past the tacky stage, a little more if you thin it a lot with denatured alky. When you put on sucessive coats you'll see that the next coat "softens" the previous coat, so go lightly and smoothly. Doing a shellac finish on bare wood can be a frustrating thing because of this.. that's why I spray it when doing a bare finish. Just wipe the tweed with a rag with some denatured alcohol on it to clean it up before you start.

[TD_Madden]

Yep, Zinnser is the good stuff (shake well before applying)...but make sure you have good ventilation!

[Steve A.]

Okay, so how many coats has everybody been putting on the grille cloth? I first sealed it with clear and then put on 6 coats of ember so it glistens like jewels but the speaker does seem to be a bit muffled. Just kidding- I'm celebrating April Fools Day early this year.

It looks pretty good although I did make a few mistakes- the ember would pool up on the backside of some of the surfaces and dry much darker than the rest (although that would normally not be seen). For one coat of clear and 4 coats of ember it took about 36 hours.

The next time I do this I'll probably do two coats of clear and then let that dry for 24 hours. I thought about making some rig to suspend the cabinet (like through the two screwholes that hold the chassis) but it'd probably be just as good to work slow, just once side at a time. I used two 8" angle brackets to hold the cabinet up from the newspapers underneath.

Thanks for all of the tips! My main concern was just sealing it up so it wouldn't get screwed up hauling it around.

Steve Ahola

[PRNDL]

>> I thought about making some rig to suspend the cabinet

It's much easier to lacquer the tweed before putting it on the amp.
Cut your pieces slightly larger since it sometimes shrinks.
Put it in the sun to dry quickly.

Paint brush is fine, although it will be blotchy, but that goes away with time. I think it gives a homemade look.

Larry Rodgers, the local amp tech and tweed master, mixes a little of several colors in with Minwax Honey Pine to get the right color. He also dilutes it with mineral spirits to use in an air gun. That way it's spread evenly.