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Thread: Kinman.

  1. #1
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    Kinman.

    Does anyone know which wire they use??? Got one here, wonder about experimenting little....

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    Pickup Maker David Schwab's Avatar
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    I wouldn't mess with it. He has it set up to work with the stacked coils. They are likely wound differently too. I don't think any mods would be an improvement in tone.

    Just read his patents if you want to know how they work.

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    Old Timer Spence's Avatar
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    Don't want to seem argumentative with you Dave but I think experimenting with a Kinman pickup is a worthwhile thing to do. The Fender noiseless coils are pretty straight forward and have been turning up at my shop needing a rewind for a few years now. I fully expect some Kinmans to turn up sooner or later so I'll certainly need to know what makes them tick.

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    Pickup Maker David Schwab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spence View Post
    Don't want to seem argumentative with you Dave but I think experimenting with a Kinman pickup is a worthwhile thing to do. The Fender noiseless coils are pretty straight forward and have been turning up at my shop needing a rewind for a few years now. I fully expect some Kinmans to turn up sooner or later so I'll certainly need to know what makes them tick.
    Spence, I think it all depends on who's taking the pickup apart. One could easily ruin the pickup and not gain any useful info. All depends on your level of experience I guess.

    But the question was about the wire. Probably 43AWG. What are you going to find out that's not in the patents? Many patents even tell you how many turns they used. Except for the Tele bridge pickups with the laminated steel bobbin, I think they are fairly straight forward.

    But then again I've been guilty or purposefully ruining a pickup or two, but that was because I couldn't see inside them.
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    It would be possible to describe everything scientifically, but it would make no sense; it would be without meaning, as if you described a Beethoven symphony as a variation of wave pressure. Albert Einstein


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    Old Timer Spence's Avatar
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    Sure Dave. My philosophy is if you can't afford to screw something up either leave it alone or make sure you have a fast car outside with the engine running. I think manufacturers sometimes rely on others not having the balls to take a chance. You never know, SteikBacon could become a world authority on Kinman pickups.....

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    I'm still looking for a donor Lane Poor pickup to hack into...

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    Pickup Maker David Schwab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David King View Post
    I'm still looking for a donor Lane Poor pickup to hack into...
    That would be interesting. I believe he used air coils, but I'm still not sure how you situate your magnets with those.

    I've heard the guy that used to work for Poor winding the pickups was going to start making his own versions.

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    It would be possible to describe everything scientifically, but it would make no sense; it would be without meaning, as if you described a Beethoven symphony as a variation of wave pressure. Albert Einstein


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    Pickup Maker David Schwab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spence View Post
    Sure Dave. My philosophy is if you can't afford to screw something up either leave it alone or make sure you have a fast car outside with the engine running. I think manufacturers sometimes rely on others not having the balls to take a chance. You never know, SteikBacon could become a world authority on Kinman pickups.....
    But all the important stuff that you want to know about Kinman's pickups--the stuff that makes them different--is available for free in the patents.

    SteikBacon might be able to take one apart, and maybe even count the windings, and gain insight, and he might not learn a thing from it that he couldn't read in the patents. Depends on his experience level and skill.

    What did I learn from hacking up a working EMG SA? Only what the bobbins looked like, how the magnet was situated, and what gauge wire they used, and the best part, the brass screening. Armed with that, I could not make an exact copy of that pickup. But that wasn't the idea.

    I could tell enough about a DiMarzio Virtual Vintage stack (which was the design and patent that Kinman contested) to make a copy just by non destructively disassembling it and taking measurements. It might not be exact, but I have no interest in copying someone else's pickups anyway.

    But I got the idea from the original post that he wanted to experiment with the pickup, i.e., hot rod it. So I said more than likely it wouldn't improve it, as I'm sure Kinman tried various prototypes to arrive at that design, but it might sound different. That's what I meant by my comment to leave it alone.

    If he wants to try and make one, looking at the original and reading the patents is all you need. If he wants to rewind it or modify it, well that's different, and that's what I was commenting on.

    I think SteikBacon should become a world authority on his own pickups. That's better use of the time spent.

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    It would be possible to describe everything scientifically, but it would make no sense; it would be without meaning, as if you described a Beethoven symphony as a variation of wave pressure. Albert Einstein


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    World authority...???

    "Give me all your virgins and kneel down bastards!!!!"

    Ive been asked to bring two kinman to life. I wont do anything with wire, just check if there is a break somewhere on the outside. If I were to dig into those kinman I will take time to learn things. Anyway, read the patent. Didnt say too much about wire. I got 42, 43 and 44 to compare with, Ill see if it match those..

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    Old Timer Spence's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteikBacon View Post
    World authority...???

    "Give me all your virgins and kneel down bastards!!!!"

    Ive been asked to bring two kinman to life. I wont do anything with wire, just check if there is a break somewhere on the outside. If I were to dig into those kinman I will take time to learn things. Anyway, read the patent. Didnt say too much about wire. I got 42, 43 and 44 to compare with, Ill see if it match those..
    Well you have two magical magnets. Perhaps you can mod your Kinmans with those.

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    This is an old thread but I wonder if anyone managed to re-wind a Kinman. I have a dead one I want to get fixed.

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