George L Cables

[Mark Black]

A reference to "George L" cables in another thread got me thinking about this.

Is it only me, or does anybody else think a solderless-connection instrument cable is just a bad idea all around?

How could this be a good thing? I just don't get it...

[Bruce / Mission Amps]

A reference to "George L" cables in another thread got me thinking about this.

Is it only me, or does anybody else think a solderless-connection instrument cable is just a bad idea all around?

How could this be a good thing? I just don't get it...

You don't solder the 1/4 phone plug end into the jack do you?

[Mark Black]

You don't solder the 1/4 phone plug end into the jack do you?

Hah! Point taken, but I do regularly have to clean the contacts.

[Bruce / Mission Amps]

Hah! Point taken, but I do regularly have to clean the contacts.

Those plugs are actually not too bad.
The sharp pin at the center conductor is a pretty good connection and the grub screw really digs in to the shield.
Plus if they get flakey it is easy to snip of the end and start over... live and right off stage with no soldering iron.

[PeaveyBandit]

Very good cables but yes I'd think FEWER connections or better connections in the chain would always be better. I've used them extensively and other than the cables handling like cowboy rope it's good cable and you can repair on the fly with almost no tools. I can absolutely hear more of what they might call clarity and I might call "edge" on the treble end. They compare along the lines of most AVERAGE but good cable brands and NOT any better than what I heard for many very affordable brands like the premolded Planet Waves which I thought sounded more like the extreme audio-phile expensive stuff. I never knew how much difference a raw signal from an acoustic and electric guitar can be ever so finely tweaked one way or another by the cables you use. Using multiple brand cables in the guitar chain in my opinion would be even more inconsistent and confusing.

Luckily my old ES-335 sounds good through just about any amp or cable but I certainly did not find that George Ls cables lacked any signal level or quality. As I said though they weren't the audiophile super cable they'd probably like to claim either. A nice middle of the road or slightly above average result.

The best use I've ever seen for George Ls was a person running a rack of guitar effects and gadgets. By cutting the cables to perfect length and using the kinda right angled plugs it made for a very neat configuration.

Honestly although people just cringle at the thought the best sounding cables I tested for the most IN phase, fat warm and rich tone was the more expensive Monster style cables. But I found those to be very stiff and big with way too much cost for a realistic musician. The mid grade levels of monster cables where fantastic sounding and in the affordable price range but again one of the best sounding cables I've tested closely over the last many years was the affordable line of Planet Waves cables. For 20-30.00 bucks they sounded and lasted very well.


Hope that wasn't TMI.

[Mark Black]

I guess it's me becoming a curmudgeon in my old age, but I still can't embrace the idea except as an emergency solution.

Of course the US telephone system (up until recent fiber-optic technology) relied heavily on "punch-down" and other solderless technology. Heck they didn't even bother with shielding! Somehow it all seemed to (mostly) work though.

Well I'm going to go de-oxidize all my 1/4" jacks & plugs in preparation for an up-coming gig now...

[Enzo]

I keep a wire brush chucked in my Dremel next to me - the kind where the bristles stick out the end

Stainless steel wire brush #532


When it spins, the bristles flare out. it is the perfect size to slide into 1/4" jacks to polish the inside of the bushing, and at the end, it will polish the tip and ring contacts as well. Every time I get an old Fender head, I can see the puff of dirt and dust it throws out coming out from inside the jack.

Then swab them out with a Qtip soaked in Deoxit.

Amazing how many "dead" jacks it saves.

[jrfrond]

I guess it's me becoming a curmudgeon in my old age, but I still can't embrace the idea except as an emergency solution.

Of course the US telephone system (up until recent fiber-optic technology) relied heavily on "punch-down" and other solderless technology. Heck they didn't even bother with shielding! Somehow it all seemed to (mostly) work though.

Well I'm going to go de-oxidize all my 1/4" jacks & plugs in preparation for an up-coming gig now...

They didn't need shielding due to the extremely low impedance of the circuits. A twisted pair alone worked just fine. FYI- Most of our pro audio designs, including phantom power, came from Bell Labs.

And you are NOT just an old warhorse! I don't trust solderless cables either. I didn't trust them when Fender did them 30 years ago, and I don't trust them now. Why? Because, unless the wire and receptacles are made of the same EXACT materials, there will be galvanic reaction, which will eventually result in conductive loss as oxides build up. Trust me, Ma Bell had PLENTY of Telco block punchdown failures! In addition, I service an extremely wide range of gear here in NYC, and solderless connectors are ALWAYS a problem. I actually thank God for that, because it is a form of job security for us as techs, but in MY gear, solderless just doesn't fly. Solderless connectors are all about time and convenience. Personally,I want reliability. In places where there is no choice, like phone plugs, Rca plugs, XLR's, etc., I make sure that it all gets the DeOxIt treatment.

[Bruce / Mission Amps]

I keep a wire brush chucked in my Dremel next to me - the kind where the bristles stick out the end

Stainless steel wire brush #532
...
When it spins, the bristles flare out. it is the perfect size to slide into 1/4" jacks to polish the inside of the bushing, and at the end, it will polish the tip and ring contacts as well. Every time I get an old Fender head, I can see the puff of dirt and dust it throws out coming out from inside the jack.

Then swab them out with a Qtip soaked in Deoxit.

Amazing how many "dead" jacks it saves.

I've been using .223 caliber bore brushes for years.



http://www.davescatalog.com/pages/f/...m-Caliber.html

[Gtr_tech]

Hell I've just started having problems with 1/4" plugs going south. Normally if I use anything in the loop of my rig I use the same 2 cables I built 12 or so years ago. Switchcraft connectors, Belden cable, soldered and shrink tubed over the barrel end and cable near it. Just like all the prefab'd store cables. I used yellow shrink tube to make them easily ID-able in the gear bag. Recently I noticed a strange hum when the loop was enabled. Thought it was the effect unit as I've had issues with that. Turned out to be the cables. I meter'd them end to end and got higher than normal R. Solder was fine, wire was fine, connectors were shiny as the day I put them together. Ended up being the pressure fitted parts that had gone high resistance. Sprayed some de-ox in there and moved them around a bit with pliers. Good as new.

So anyone who loves solderless connectors...there's a lesson for ya. And those who think just because the wire is soldered for the connector its bulletproof....think again. The connector itself has solderless connections.

[MattT]

All I know is that I always measure my George Ls after making them and then I measure them occasionally. The tip-to-tip resistance in my George Ls (or Bill Ls in the 80s ) always creeps up over time. It still might only be 20ohms after a few years but I would prefer they stayed at the very low resistance they are when I make them. The ground connection however always seems to do fine. I just get sick of having to redo them. Yes they can make for a very neat pedalboard...until you've redone them a few times and you have to start over because it's now too short.

EDIT: I also have an amp with those 'plugs' inside...like for connecting the OT primaries to the plates. I have two failed EL84s to prove that that connection can fail (leaving the screens at full voltage).

[jrfrond]

In the old days, I used to build my own cables with Switchcraft PJ-045 mil-spec brass 1/4" plugs, and soldered right to the brass without using the terminal lugs and screws. You had to polish the plugs every so often, but these plugs were designed for cases where failure wasn't an option.

Cleaning 1/4" jacks is a good thing, provided you do not breach the plating. Once the plating worn, corrosion builds quickly. Of course, the new breed of plastic jacks present their own problems, but that's ANOTHER story.

[Blair]

Anyone else had issues with the Planet Waves spring fit plugs chewing out their jacks (especially barrel jacks)? I've had several customers where I've had to replace their output jacks due to the chewing action these hungry little buggers have.

[jrfrond]

All I know is that I always measure my George Ls after making them and then I measure them occasionally. The tip-to-tip resistance in my George Ls (or Bill Ls in the 80s ) always creeps up over time. It still might only be 20ohms after a few years but I would prefer they stayed at the very low resistance they are when I make them. The ground connection however always seems to do fine. I just get sick of having to redo them. Yes they can make for a very neat pedalboard...until you've redone them a few times and you have to start over because it's now too short.

EDIT: I also have an amp with those 'plugs' inside...like for connecting the OT primaries to the plates. I have two failed EL84s to prove that that connection can fail (leaving the screens at full voltage).

These are all examples of the galvanic reaction I was talking about early, which is exacerbated by extreme conditions e.g. heat, smoke, humidity, high current, etc. Once a galvanic reaction occurs and remains unchecked, it snowballs pretty quickly.

Solderless connectors are for convenience, and nothing more. Removable connectors e.g. 1/4", RCA, XLR, DIN, even tube sockets etc. are there mostly to make things portable and modular and are a necessary evil, but I will NEVER use solderless or IDC connectors either in my amps, guitars, or cables. For me, it's solder, solder, SOLDER!!!

In all of the commercial guitar amps I own, I've hardwired everything.