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  • #16
    Originally posted by jrfrond View Post
    Mass-produced amps, in my extensive experience in the repair industry, currently have the most piss-poor component quality I've ever seen, and questionable build quality. If I were to purchase an off-the-shelf amp to gig with, I would go through it with a fine-tooth comb looking for potential failure points, e.g. solder joints, wiring issues, etc., but it would NOT encompass wholesale replacement of components sourced from Far East places you've never heard of. THAT is what scare me.

    With a kit amp, you know every single components going in, every single wire and solder joint. For those who are experienced, it is practically a no-brainer. However, if you have NEVER built a kit amp, or anything electronic for that matter, even a 5E3, which is relatively simple, is not the place to start. However, I will take a kit amp over ANYTHING sold in GC or Sam Ash. Perhaps even other boutique amps, because I'd rather know everything that goes into it, including every last solder joint and even the type of solder used. That's why I build my own amps, as well as guitars and drums. I really don't use any instruments or amps that I don't personally build.

    My son wants a Marshall amp. I will probably purchase the unloaded boards and chassis from Ceriatone, purchase selected components and transformers, plus a cabinet, and do the rest myself. That way, if something DOES happen, I know who to blame!
    Try Metro for the Marshall amp; I built a JTM 45 from parts that I purchased from them and nothing but top self stuff; plus a lot of compoment brand/type options and reasonably priced
    Normy

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    • #17
      OK, I have psyched myself up to get a kit... now which one?

      I've decided to build if I can find the right kit. I looked at the AX87 P1, but he describes the sound as "cleanish" (not clean) I just want a warm tube sound for performing in small clubs and as a neutral reference for testing out pedals. I almost bought a blues jr. if that gives you an idea what I'm looking for.

      I AM a beginner, so maybe I should stick with the P1. Suggestions would be most welcome.

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      • #18
        If it were me, knowing what I know now and the amp you're discribing, I would look at Allen Amplification (www.allenamps.com/kits.php) If you?re looking for tube reverb (more complex circuit), I'd look at the sweet spot (based on black face Princeton reverb), He offers power up to 35watts (depending on trannies and output tubes) or the hot fudge (basd on brown prince) that has a simpler circuit but no reverb and available with similar power selections. I?ve built two Weber 6A14HP kits from Weber (upgraded components i.e. pots jacks and caps and trannies), which is based on a Princeton reverb using larger trannies and 6L6?s output tubes (35 watts). I love this kit, it?s loud and small and easy to carry. I would not recommend it for a beginner though because Weber does not offer tech support. Allen?s amplification has a good reputation for support and quality components.

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        • #19
          I chose the DIY method, with the exception that I am collecting the parts myself. A chassis from Hoffman, transformers from Mercury Magnetics, caps and resistors from various vendors. No cabinet or speakers yet. Total invested so far? About $600. I could have spent less if I hadn't chose premium components. Did I really need the $8-apiece Vitamin-T caps? Did I really need the Sprague Atoms? Did I really need Mercury ToneClone transformers? Probably not, but... I wanted parts that were as close to the original as possible in the attempt to create the original sound as best as possible. Time will tell because I haven't finished it yet. Read on... Add $300 for the cabinet (Tolexed) and $200+ for 4 speakers. And my time is free. So when I'm all done, I hope to have a replica 5F6A Bassman for about $1100 in parts. And I hope to have an amp with better quality than the reissue and perhaps better components and better sound, too. If I was doing this again, though, I'd choose a smaller amp like a Champ or Champ Delux. Aside from being better for a small room, I think I may have better luck selling a few of the smaller amps to friends and family. The Bassman will be a brute.

          I know I didn't exactly respond to the kit-versus-reissue post, but I thought a first-time builder might want to hear why I chose to pick the parts myself versus use what the kit supplier offered. For me, part of the fun was putting together the shopping list, buying the parts, and watching the whole thing take shape. And since I have an electronic background (albeit dormant for the last 20 years), I am able to read schematics and assemble the amp without formal assembly instructions. Sometimes there's guesswork involved, but that's fun, too.

          To the OP, Good Luck and have fun.

          Larry

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          • #20
            In my case, I just finished my first amplifier build from scratch, it was a 5e3 build, which came out great. I had a few advantages going my way: my dad taught me to solder many years ago when I was a teenager; and good soldering skill makes a big difference. Also, I have a very good friend who has built dozens of different classic amps to serve as a mentor; he reviewed my workmanship a couple of times during my build, and answered my questions along the way, suggested how to dress the wires to minimize hum, and also lead me through the initial power up sequence, which helped tremendously. In this way I was able to talk through and learn safe practices; safety was a real concern to me and so this was like receiving a master class. I think (at least he made me feel this way) that he enjoyed having a "student".

            Now he is having me build a 5F6A from scratch, and expecting me to use what I learned during the 5e3 build. I will probably buy the chassis for the sake of a more visually accurate reproduction with chrome plating and lettering (the 5e3 was bent up from scrap aluminum which I polished, but still lacks lettering - I may get letraset letters and add them later) but I will fabricate my eyelet board and cabinet. I will continue to ask my friend when I have a question, because there is no wisdom in guessing in these matters.

            By the way, if you are willing to take the time, and have some woodworking tools and skills, fabricating your own cabinet can save a lot of money. My 5e3 cabinet cost for the pine for the box and plywood for the baffle and back plates, tolex, adhesive, amber shellac, leather handle, cabinet feet and brass screws and finish washers to mount the baffle, chassis and back plates was around $100. I was given the grill cloth, oxblood from an old organ, which otherwise would have been another $20 for a yard. It did take time, I made some mistakes, but I have also learned from my mistakes and my next cabinet will reflect what I learned. But even with the mistakes, my cabinet looks real good.

            I said all that really just to suggest that you take a look at your situation, what you know, what skills and tools you have, and who you might know that can really help you when you have a question. If you have some things that convince you that you have a good support system available, go for it. The tuition may be a bit higher than outright buying a current production amp, but you also get to keep and enjoy what you produce with the tuition.

            How many people get to actually hear and play with vintage amplifiers? But if you learn to build them, and enjoy it (I enjoyed my build tremendously) that opens the door to more builds of other classic amps that you have always wanted to have, because your skills will improve and you will be tooled up appropriately.

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            • #21
              Yep, I could solder, and had a very basic knowledge of electronics....but not vintage electronics such as tube amps. So I bit the bullet and bought a chassis, voltage and impedance switches off Nik at Ceriatone, Sozo caps direct, board, turrets and switches from Metro, knobs from Weber, electrolytics and Hammond Transformers from Antique Electronics, etc, etc, etc. Then proceeded to build my amp from scratch. Many hours of lurking through forums and learning from the many mistakes and teething problems of others until I finally finished my baby. A Marshall 2204. Made the cab and tolexed it myself, and learned heaps along the way. Living in Australia, and having to import everything from the US except the carbon film resistors, I could have bought a second hand JCM800 for the same money, but that wasn't the point of the exercise. I wanted to learn, and I wanted the satisfaction of doing it all myself.

              I hadn't quite finished the Marshall when I started acquiring the parts for my second build... an AB763 Fender Blackface Twin. Both amps work perfectly after a few minor problems, all related to my inexperience, but with the help of members from another forum, (didn't know about this one at the time), the problems were all solved.

              I've started my 3rd and 4th amps now. A JTM45 and an 18W TMB Marshall, again from scratch, and again many hours of research. I'm already planning my next 3 builds. A Marshall Super Bass powered by KT88s, a Vox AC30, and a hybrid being an AB763 BFT using EL84s instead of 6L6s. I'm also toying with the idea of building a tube Hi Fi amp and tube pre amp to go with it. Absolutely useless for home theater, but my vinyl will sound the way it's meant to!

              My advice is simple. Take the bull by the horns and take on the project of your choice. Don't be afraid to start something more complex as the principals are all basically the same, (but be very aware of the very high voltages these amps use), and if you do have problems, then there is a wealth of information right here in this forum, all you need to do is ask the questions and the answers will come forth.

              Good luck with what ever you attempt.... and it will be the best amp you've ever used, because you chose the components, and you built it!

              Tinkerer.
              Last edited by Tinkerer; 10-14-2009, 07:55 AM. Reason: Added more text and corrected spelling.

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              • #22
                How about a ready built kit
                https://taweber.powweb.com/store/kits_weber.htm#sowatt
                My band:- http://www.youtube.com/user/RedwingBand

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                • #23
                  kit vs. DIY

                  So I just finished my first build, which I would call a mixture of kit and DIY. But probably mostly kit.
                  I bought a hoffman board kit including pots and jacks for a 5e3, and stripped out a working 6v6-powered precision electronics pa amp that had been previously modified for guitar use, leaving only the transformers and tube sockets. This amp had octal tubes in the preamp, so I found some decent vintage 6sl7 tubes, and wired my sockets to the board accordingly(you can use the same values as you would for the 12ax7/12ay7 tubes), and mounted my board in the chassis. I bought my board from revolver amps, and Charles Prest has been very helpful, being able to answer most of my questions. It also came with a very helpful diagram and and booklet that, while maybe not neccsarily step-by-step instructions, they had most of the info I needed. I've also been able to make subtle mods to my amp like making both of my channels "bright" channels. To me, this was kinda the best of both worlds. I was able to build an amp that(not to knock any of the finely built kits out there) wasn't just another kit, but also challenged me to build what I wanted, how i wanted to build it. I got to figure out best placement for my board and all the off-board components, and I was able to use vintage transformers. Don't know if this really makes a difference, but it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside...
                  I also like having a head instead of a combo. Just a personal prefference.
                  As far as my cost goes, I have $135 into the pa amp, and 150 into the board, so all in all I have a pretty righteous sounding deluxe for under 300. But I also have seen 5e3 kits without the chassis(but have transformers) for 225 or so on eBay right now...

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by mhickler View Post
                    I was thinking of doing my first amp build, but when I looked at kits online, I felt a bit discouraged. I realized that I could buy a Fender Blues Jr. for the cost of even the lower-priced kits. Aside from the pleasure and learning you get from DIY amps, is the final product value better than if you had paid for a store-bought amp?
                    Yes. A Fender Blues Junior is a mere shadow of what you can build yourself. What you build won't have reverb or a master volume but what they WILL have is tone to the bone.

                    If you can't hear the difference, by all means, but a BJ, but anything you build will sound many times better than a BJ.

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