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Thread: Favorite 5E3 settings

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    Favorite 5E3 settings

    I search but couldbn't find a thread like this....

    Can you all please post your fave settings for your 5E3s???
    Jumpering, A/B, just plug & play...

    If this has been addressed somewhere, please point me there as a Google search didn't produce much....

    As Jim Nickelson of Lil Dawg Amps says "It's hard to get a bad sound out of that circuit!"

    Thanks!

    mark

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    Last edited by tboy; 12-12-2008 at 01:48 AM.

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    Senior Member cminor9's Avatar
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    Mine is slightly off stock. .1 mfd coupling caps are .022 instead.

    I plug straight into the bright channel, the bright jack. No effects except for *maybe* some light delay every once in a while.
    Channel 1 (unused channel) is at about 3'oclock, just before the so-called "mid dip".
    Channel 2 (channel I am plugged into) is wherever I feel like it, somewhere between 10'oclock for rehearsal to full on if I really want to rock out and play some AC/DC riffs.

    It's very bright, just how I like it, if the guitar tone and volume are full on. I turn down the guitar's volume to go clean, roll off the guitar's tone if it's too bright (like it is sometimes with my strat), and turn the guitar full on for leads.

    My 5E3 is running two speaker cabs, a weber ceramic blue dog and a weber alnico 12A150. It goes from a beautiful clean to a nice slightly dirty jazz tone to a marshallesque roar to a nice Eagles lead sound with the twist of a few knobs or swapping of a guitar. All at a tolerable volume. This amp totally rocks! Can't wait to build my next tweed.

    For me the only thing channel 1 is good for is sort of a mid control (but it is quite effective at fattening the tone as your turn it up). I never plug into it directly. Never cared for jumpering the channels either, but maybe I'll try it again someday.

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    Member tele-tubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cminor9 View Post
    Mine is slightly off stock. .1 mfd coupling caps are .022 instead.
    This is your only mod? What builder company?

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    also, what's your guitar I use mostly teles and am wondering that .022 might be too bright?

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    Senior Member cminor9's Avatar
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    I built it myself, I got a kit from triodestore, but I added some stuff to that since it didn't have everything. Pretty standard stuff, some small outfit made the transformers which seem to be pretty beefy (made in the USA), sprague filter caps, orange drop coupling caps, and a mix of carbon comp and metal film resistors.

    I guess I made a few more changes: I upped the cathode resistor on the power tubes to 330 ohm from 250. Didn't feel the need to run the tubes so hot. I also upgraded some of the caps to accommodate more voltage so that I can run the amp with a stiffer rectifier like a GZ34 to get more clean headroom. But I don't think any of my changes really affect the tone much unless I put in the stiffer recto, they just give the amp more capability. I basically just made sure the amp could handle a few more volts.

    I play a few guitars through the amp, mostly an Epiphone Dot with Gibson Burstbuckers, a frankenstrat, and an Ibanez SC420 (two humbuckers). Wish I had a tele, I have been playing for a long time, but I just never ever got a tele. When I first built the amp with the .1 caps, it sounded OK with a strat but *horrid* with any kind of humbucker. But it only sounded good with a strat with the tone full open.

    I don't find the tone control particularly usable, I pretty much just run it wide open. If I need a darker tone, I just turn down the tone control on the guitar (stick a stiff recto in the amp and roll the tone off on the dot, et voila, a nice fat and just slightly dirty jazz tone). Turning the amp's tone knob to even halfway gives me sonic mud.

    Hope that helps. Bottom line, I don't think you'll be able to make this amp sound too thin and too bright unless you do something really extreme. .022 coupling caps aren't extreme, they're really quite normal (check out some other fender schems). I'd make the mod without a second thought.

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    cool! thanks man

    Quote Originally Posted by cminor9 View Post
    Hope that helps. Bottom line, I don't think you'll be able to make this amp sound too thin and too bright unless you do something really extreme. .022 coupling caps aren't extreme, they're really quite normal (check out some other fender schems). I'd make the mod without a second thought.

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    Stock 5E3 circuit except for one component change (?) that ensures that the amp runs properly with a 5V4 rectifier. Eminence Governor speaker (VERY effecient and great sounding).

    -strat->reverb tank-> into bright #1
    -bright vol ~9
    -normal vol between 6.5 (in the middle) and 10 depending on how much middle that fits into the mix on that particular gig. I like it with max mids however, this doesn't always sound best with the band.
    - tone as high as possible without becomming piercing, usually between 7-11. I somewhat use it both as a gain and a "cut through" knob. And always start out with a conservative setting, so that I can turn up a bit as the show goes on if needed.

    Then I ride the guitar vol. and try to keep things (the band level, that is) at a level where I can always turn up just an inch more to stand out. Easy to turn up, much harder to get it down again.. and get the band with you :-)

    Andreas

    PS: A plug and play setting for me would be bright#1, bright vol 9, normal 7, tone 9.

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    Member tele-tubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cminor9 View Post
    Mine is slightly off stock. .1 mfd coupling caps are .022 instead.
    forgot to ask you if swapped out all four or just the 1st two near v1...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jakeboy View Post
    I search but couldbn't find a thread like this....

    Can you all please post your fave settings for your %e3s???
    Jumpering, A/B, just plug & play...

    If this has been addressed somewhere, please point me there as a Google search didn't produce much....

    As Jim Nickelson of Lil Dawg Amps says "It's hard to get a bad sound out of that circuit!"

    Thanks!

    mark
    i recently discovered maxing the mic channel (no jumpers) and plugging into the instrument channel with vol at any setting yeilds a fabulous tone void of any boom or fart that has been complained about... just when the caps are in the way...

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    I am still experimenting with 5e3. But I think there is no 'universal' patch as each guitar/required tone requires different settings. But I have found that patch the Bright to input 2 of the Normal and plug into Normal 1 gives more mids and an edgy undertone. However, the knob positions are critical and as the vol doesn't really 'increase' past 3 (seems to get more 'denser'!) I have the Bright vol on 3 and 'Normal set at 2.5 - at that point it 'just' starts working - and Tone 8.25 - YES! That precise...!

    This works well with most (Strat and HumBuckers), although for Twang - no patch, just input the Bright input, turn down guitar tone by at least 70% if on bridge of a Tele. Oh yes of course, forgot, the guitar controls - equally required to dial in precise tones...

    Thinking about it, this actually, is a bloody complex amp...!

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    tele-tubby: I just noticed that I never replied to you on the coupling caps. The amp still required that I turn the tone all the way up with .022s in the first two slots. So I tweaked it again. Looking at the layout diagram (http://ampedia.redbeartrading.com/da...5e3_layout.gif) and reading from right to left, my coupling caps are as follows: .022, .033, .022, .047, .047. The result: with the tone control all the way up on the amp and on a bright guitar like a strat, it's too bright. That's perfect as far as I am concerned. You shouldn't have to turn the tone control all the way up to get a decent tone, IMO.

    59bassman: "Thinking about it, this actually, is a bloody complex amp...!" Yes, in may ways! I think it's because you learn to play dynamically using this amp. That seems to be lacking in so many guitar players. If you can play in the pocket and have some dynamics, that takes your playing to new places. I know it has done that for me. I think my playing has improved more in the year since I built this amp than any other year in the last 20 that I have been playing electric. If more guitar players would discover those knobs on the guitar actually DO something, we'd have better guitar players.

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    This is an excellent thread.

    I recently built my 5E3 and these past two weeks or so are the first time I've ever played one. Mine is basically stock circuit and I currently have a Weber AlNiCo Sig 12S.

    I gig with small amps (a Fender Princeton Reverb with an Eminence Ragin Cajun mostly, and mic'ed - or cafes with a Deluxe Reverb not mic'ed with a Weber 12F150). I want to use the 5E3 in some of these cases. I tried once in each case and it just didn't make it. Just got lost in the mix unless I pushed my guitar volume up into serious overdrive. I think it's because the speaker isn't "punchy" enough. At home the 5E3 seems to be louder, even clean, than my Princeton Reverb, but out in the "real world" it was different.

    So on the topic of speakers... cminor9 gigs with two speakers: Weber 12A150 + Ceramic Blue Dog. AndreasA uses an Eminence Governor. Maybe you guys could elaborate a little more on your setup and venue size. Are you mic'ed? Do you use your amp as your guitar monitor, or are you also running your guitar sound into your monitor for support?

    I'm wondering if a 12A150 on its own may do the trick. I understand it would be louder/punchier than the cheaper Sig 12S I have. For kicks I tried my 12F150 (while it was still housed in my BFDR cabinet) and although it was louder, it had a pretty strong midrange honk from the 5E3 I didn't care for. The 12F150 sounds much better in the BFDR to me.

    With this amp I am only just learning to deal with the overdrive dynamics and tone from the guitar. I've been discovering the same kinds of settings you guys have mentioned. I'm going to be exploring some of the coupling cap changes. One thing I tried that was also interesting that I had only read about in one place is this: if you are using a 12AX7 in V1 as well as V2, then to keep it from overdriving V2 too much you can remove the cathode capacitor from V2. I tried this and it makes the dual 12AX7 configuration sound pretty much like a 12AY7/12AX7 configuration when the cap is in. It also has a little less flub.

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    mbratch: I'm still waiting for the chassis and transformers to get here, but I have ordered my cab and speaker combo, it's a Celestion Blue in a Mojo cab. It's my understanding that the Blue is a really effecient speaker and gets loud in a good way with an amp like the 5E3, and I gig the same size venues that you're talking about. I even have a '67 Deluxe Reverb that I'll be able to compare the tweed deluxe to when I get it done. That should be fun, to A/B the two amps for clean/dirty tones...
    Anyway, I'll post about the Blue when I know what I'm talking about

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    I'm reading a lot of raves about "the blue" in the 5e3. I was hoping to get away with a less expensive speaker (maybe a reissue Jensen P12N or Weber 12A150-O) but it's getting harder to resist...

    PP: What kind of speaker do you currently have in your Deluxe Reverb?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mbratch View Post

    Mbratch, sorry for the delay in responding...

    So on the topic of speakers... cminor9 gigs with two speakers: Weber 12A150 + Ceramic Blue Dog. AndreasA uses an Eminence Governor. Maybe you guys could elaborate a little more on your setup and venue size. Are you mic'ed? Do you use your amp as your guitar monitor, or are you also running your guitar sound into your monitor for support?
    I have played this setup for picnic gigs on up to weddings with 300+ people in a large room. I don't use any sound system for my guitar, just turn it up as loud as I need, which is at most half up and most time spent playing with my guitar's volume on about 3 or 4 (thus clean). Most of the time, I play an Epiphone Dot with Burstbuckers in it and occasionally a strat. Really, it's never a matter of being loud enough, it's always a matter of figuring out how to be quiet enough so as not to kill the room and be the moron guitar player who always plays too loud.

    Sounds like you're playing roughly the kinds of gigs I am playing. Not sure what kind of music you are playing, but we play a little of just about everything. If you're having trouble getting lost in the mix, I think the problem is your speaker. Or maybe you have a 13 piece horn section Seriously, though...try a new speaker. I have gigged mine with a few diff drummers, some of which hit too hard and have never had a problem. With two 8 ohm speakers, I am playing against a four ohm load, and that might be opening things up a bit. But even on rare occasions when I bring one cab, it's still plenty loud. If I had to choose one, it'd be the Blue Dog with the Ceramic magnet (paid like $100 for it.) Honestly, not overwhelmed with the much more expensive 12F150A.

    Also, for some reason (probably my PT + Sovtek Recto), my voltages are a bit high for a 5E3. So that may have something to do with it. Voltages on V1 A&B are about 200 and 180, and voltages on the 6V6 plates is at about 390 at idle. If your amp's components can take it, you could probably safely try a recto that drops a little less voltage.

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    Junior Member blueboxer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbratch View Post
    I'm reading a lot of raves about "the blue" in the 5e3. I was hoping to get away with a less expensive speaker (maybe a reissue Jensen P12N or Weber 12A150-O) but it's getting harder to resist...

    PP: What kind of speaker do you currently have in your Deluxe Reverb?
    mbratch, save your money and get the "Blue"... trust me on this one. I swore I'd never spend that much money on a new speaker, but I did and I've never looked back!

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    Quote Originally Posted by blueboxer View Post
    mbratch, save your money and get the "Blue"... trust me on this one. I swore I'd never spend that much money on a new speaker, but I did and I've never looked back!
    You drive a hard bargain.

    I currently have a Weber AlNiCo Sig 12S which I like a whole lot. It has a nice chime and good general tone balance. I just want something that will be punchier (tighter + louder) and cut through a band mix better.

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    mbratch, regarding the speaker in my '67 DR, it's a Celestion G12H30 Anniversary model. I tried a Weber 150 something, the one that everyone loves in the DR, and I didn't like it nearly as much as the Celestion. That amp and speaker have a symbiotic thing going on that I can't describe; it's got it all. I can't wait to finish my 5E3 and get the cab and Celestion Blue together...I've got high expectations, which is dangerous...you know that they say expectations always kick your a##! But I'm expecting away...

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    Junior Member blueboxer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbratch View Post
    You drive a hard bargain.

    I currently have a Weber AlNiCo Sig 12S which I like a whole lot. It has a nice chime and good general tone balance. I just want something that will be punchier (tighter + louder) and cut through a band mix better.
    That's EXACTLY what the Celestion Alnico Blue will do for you! It's loud with plenty of punch and has nice clear chime as you roll back on the guitar's volume knob.

    I first had a Weber AlNiCo Sig 12S in my 5E3 as well and the "Blue" blew it away...

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    Quote Originally Posted by blueboxer View Post
    That's EXACTLY what the Celestion Alnico Blue will do for you! It's loud with plenty of punch and has nice clear chime as you roll back on the guitar's volume knob.

    I first had a Weber AlNiCo Sig 12S in my 5E3 as well and the "Blue" blew it away...
    OK, well it looks like I'll be doing my part to help stimulate the economy then soon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mbratch View Post
    OK, well it looks like I'll be doing my part to help stimulate the economy then soon.
    I promise that you will not regret it!!!

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    These are reputed to be very good: Warehouse Guitar Speakers | Product Detail

    I still stand by the Weber Blue Dog, though. But speakers are so subjective anyway. Is the Celestion worth almost $200 more than the Weber? Only you can answer that. I haven't played my 5E3 through a Celestion Blue Dog, and blueboxer probably hasn't played a 5E3 through the Weber. Sorry, but you have to make your own decision here

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    I'm reading a lot of raves about "the blue" in the 5e3. I was hoping to get away with a less expensive speaker (maybe a reissue Jensen P12N or Weber 12A150-O) but it's getting harder to resist...
    The Celestion Blue sounds really nice in a 5E3 but can't reliably be used at cranked stage levels. The Gold version sounds nearly the same and handles more than twice the power, it's IMO a much safer option if you gig often.

    The Recoton Jensen P12N isn't worth the bother IMO.

    Ted Weber has some really nice speakers for the 5E3, my fave is the 12A125, Ted's clone of the original Jensen P12Q.Some prefer the O or S versions for a slightly more modern sound.

    Another option is the Eminence Red Coat Red Fang, which is voiced quite like a Blue, handles as much power as the Gold and costs much less. It's large glued bell cover can be a problem with some combos using largish 6V6's such as the JJ's or a non standard chassis.such as the 6" wide Hammond used by a lot of builders.

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    Junior Member blueboxer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cminor9 View Post
    These are reputed to be very good: Warehouse Guitar Speakers | Product Detail

    I still stand by the Weber Blue Dog, though. But speakers are so subjective anyway. Is the Celestion worth almost $200 more than the Weber? Only you can answer that. I haven't played my 5E3 through a Celestion Blue Dog, and blueboxer probably hasn't played a 5E3 through the Weber. Sorry, but you have to make your own decision here

    Actually, I stated earlier in the thread that I have indeed tried the Weber along with Jensen and some others... the Celestion won out and yes it's definitely worth $200. I thought I'd never say it but it's true!!!

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    Ok, found a good price on a new Celestion Blue, cleared the expense through my accounting department (wife), and placed the order. Speaker's "in the mail".

    PremiumPlus, keep us posted on your experience when you get setup. We'll compare notes.

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    Soundslikefun
    Hope you like your Blue...keep us posted with your reaction to it!

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    I told my wife, as part of my justification, that people on the internet told me this speaker would make my Tweed amp sound amazing. She just laughed.

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    mbratch, you're busting me up! That's the spirit, buddy, tell her we said it is okay!!! If she has any further questions just say that PremiumPlus said that it is all good, and she can call me if there are any further concerns.
    PS, I got my chassis and transformer, now I can start wiring it...it is going to be about two more weeks before I get the Mojo cab and the Celestion Blue though...you'll probably have yours before I get mine up. Enjoy!

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    Senior Member cminor9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blueboxer View Post
    Actually, I stated earlier in the thread that I have indeed tried the Weber along with Jensen and some others... the Celestion won out and yes it's definitely worth $200. I thought I'd never say it but it's true!!!
    Cool then, I stand corrected. Someone earlier brought up the fact that a 5E3 might fry a Blue. Be careful with that thing!

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    Quote Originally Posted by cminor9 View Post
    Someone earlier brought up the fact that a 5E3 might fry a Blue. Be careful with that thing!
    I believe they were speaking hypothetically. I haven't been too worried because:
    1. The stock 5E3 circuit is rated 12-15 watts (I think closer to 12?)
    2. The Blue is conservatively rated (so "they say")
    3. I don't run my amps on 10 much.

    But that all said: I will be a little cautious.
    For the record, if anyone here has blown up a Blue with their standard 5E3, please say so now.

    I feel a new Haiku poem coming...

    Wall of sound, then fizzle
    This $300 speaker dies
    so beautifully

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    Senior Member fyl's Avatar
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    The stock 5E3 circuit is rated 12-15 watts (I think closer to 12?)
    A stock 5E3 can put out around 18 distorted watts. What is the energy content of a near square wave compared to the plain vanilla sine used for power measurements?

    The Blue is conservatively rated (so "they say")
    The check is in the mail;
    I'm from the government, I'm here to help you;
    Click here to remove your name from our mailing list;
    Etc.

    I don't run my amps on 10 much.
    No need to with a 5E3, whcih goes up to full power on 3 (OK, it all depends on the actual build), anything above 3 is added disto.

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    That's all well and good, but I still have not heard a single report of someone blowing up their Celestion Blue in a 5E3.

    Also, I believe I've seen Dr. Z Maz 18 Jr's stocked with CB's on occasion.

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    Last edited by mbratch; 05-15-2009 at 07:12 PM.

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    Junior Member blueboxer's Avatar
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    Cool then, I stand corrected. Someone earlier brought up the fact that a 5E3 might fry a Blue. Be careful with that thing!
    FWIW, I've run my Blue pretty hard for a while and have had no issues whatsoever... it's a very robust 15 watt speaker.

    I have a friend who's had a Blue in his 5E3 build for about 3 years now and plays it pretty hard at weekly gigs and has had no problems at all. He's running the heavier Mercury Magnetics iron in his too.

    Consider this, the Vox AC30 has two "Blues" in it and it's rated @ 30 watts.

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  34. #34
    Senior Member fyl's Avatar
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    That's all well and good, but I still have not heard a single report of someone blowing up their Celestion Blue in a 5E3.
    Well, it's your amp, your speaker, your choice. Enjoy!

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    Quote Originally Posted by fyl View Post
    Ted Weber has some really nice speakers for the 5E3, my fave is the 12A125, Ted's clone of the original Jensen P12Q.Some prefer the O or S versions for a slightly more modern sound.
    Ted offers the O, A, and S. Have you tried some of these? Specifically how would you compare the sound in the 5E3? Also, have you tried the 12A150? When talking with Ted, it was the one he suggested for the 5E3, but I had seen many report on them, mostly 12A125. Thanks.

    I've been reading other reviews of the Blue in a 5E3. In a couple of cases, some players have found them perhaps a little too dark for humbucker guitars. Since I plan to use my ES-347 with this amp occasionally, I'll be checking for that. I've read that the Weber speaker with an "A" cone (like the 12A150A) is brighter.

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    Last edited by mbratch; 05-16-2009 at 02:53 AM.

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