New 5E3 build...Tone Control Issue

[screamin eagle]

I just finished my 5E3 kit and since it is my first experience with a tube amp and the 5E3, and since it all fired up the first time I had a smile from ear to ear. However, like I said I am not familiar with what I am to expect out of this, so I took it to a friend who is familiar with the tweed sound, and has a PRO. What I noticed when we A/B'ed it with his pro is that when the tone knob is all the way down (1), there is no volume coming out of the amp--just like it would be turned off. When I turned it to two then I get something (none of this concerns me as the other volumes act quite similar), however the volume only increases as I turn the tone knob up, there is no apparent 'tone' control. The tone stays the same. With that said, there seems to be no bottom end on this things--while I thought it sounded great at first, after hearing it next to the pro (I know it is a different amp with a 15" speaker) I think I may have wired the tone and/or volume pots incorrectly.

Does hearing any of this sound 'normal'? Is it possible that this is how the 5E3 is? If not, does anything come to mind that I should check first? Has anyone seen or heard of this before? I assume that it is not the pot. itself cause there certainly is a change in volume, just not tone, and virtually no bottom end.


Thanks in advance.

[MWJB]

It's not normal, do you have a 0.0047uf cap between the left hand tab of the tone pot & ground (no terminal on the tone pot goes straight to ground)?

[screamin eagle]

It's not normal, do you have a 0.0047uf cap between the left hand tab of the tone pot & ground (no terminal on the tone pot goes straight to ground)?

Well I am not at the amp right now, and I did this project with my dad--he wired up all the pots and inputs, and I did everything else. The kit is a weber kit and we placed all caps in the right spot, however he is familiar with electronics and it was his suggestion to daisy chain everything that could be, especially everything that is referenced to ground--side note, the amp is really quiet.

So I think the right cap is there and referenced to ground, but it might be daisy chained through another pot. If this is the case should it cause what I am hearing?

Thanks

[MWJB]

"--side note, the amp is really quiet. " Maybe, but it doesn't work properly.

"So I think the right cap is there and referenced to ground" you need to confirm this. If the tone pot is connected directly to ground, at low settings all your signal will go straight to ground thru it, rather than just highs being bled off via the 0.0047uf cap.

If you can post a pic of the pot wiring this may help.

[screamin eagle]

Okay, I am not at liberty to work on the amp right now (at work) but I have it with me and I took a look at it. All the the grounds for the pots are daisy chained together. The .00047 cap is taken from the tone pot ground tab and to middle volume ground tab and all of those grounds go off one wire to a star ground lug.

I see that it may not be right, but if all of those points are referenced to ground then there is continuity anyways, right? So is that why it works, but just not correctly?

[MWJB]

There are only 2 pot tabs that go straight to ground, LH tabs of the volume pots.

There is no tone pot "ground tab", the LH tab connects to one end of the 0.0047uf cap, the other end of this cap goes to ground.

If this isn't the issue, we need a pic.

[screamin eagle]

There are only 2 pot tabs that go straight to ground, LH tabs of the volume pots.

There is no tone pot "ground tab", the LH tab connects to one end of the 0.0047uf cap, the other end of this cap goes to ground.

If this isn't the issue, we need a pic.

Okay, but if the two volumes LH tabs go to ground (the one star ground lug) and the LH tab of tone goes to .0047 cap which goes to ground, then isn't there continuity between LH tab of tone to LH tabs of both volumes? They are all referenced to ground--you may indeed be right about this being the problem, I am just asking about general electronics.

Here are some pic. Taken with cell phone, its the best I got right now.

Thanks for your help.

If these pictures are too small then I will try to resize them.

[screamin eagle]

Yes the the .0047 cap on the tone pot--the yellow one. but it is daisy chained to the LH tab of the middle volume with a wire that the goes back to the LH tab of tone, and then from there to star ground.

Should I disconnect the wire that goes from the middle volume LH tab (that has the other volume connected via daisy chain) to LH tab of tone and take the two volumes LH tabs (daisy chained) straight to ground, then take the LH tab of tone and go to .0047 cap to ground (same star ground lug). Again, isn't there continuity since they are all referenced to ground?

[MWJB]

Snip that wire that runs from middle volume LH tab to tone pot LH tab. Snip the wire that runs from Tone LH tab to ground. Now join the wire from the ground lug (was going to LH tab tone pot) to the wire from LH tab of the middle volume pot. Recap - You are just tieing together the 2 wires you have just clipped, omitting the connection to tone pot LH tab.

[MWJB]

No, the tone pot is not referenced to ground (well other than thru the pot body), the LH tab connects ONLY to one end of the 0.0047uf cap, the other end of this cap goes to ground (where there will then be continuity to the vol pot LH tabs).

[screamin eagle]

Snip that wire that runs from middle volume LH tab to tone pot LH tab. Snip the wire that runs from Tone LH tab to ground. Now join the wire from the ground lug (was going to LH tab tone pot) to the wire from LH tab of the middle volume pot. Recap - You are just tieing together the 2 wires you have just clipped, omitting the connection to tone pot LH tab.

Okay, I understand, but after I do that, do I leave the .0047 cap as is: LH tab tone to LH tab middle volume, which is still referenced to ground from the LH tab middle volume going directly to ground (after I do the snipping)? Or do I disconnect it from the middle vol. LH tab and take it directly to ground?

[screamin eagle]

Okay, so let recap--and thanks, I really appreciate your help.

snip the wire that goes from LH tab middle volume to LH tab tone. Snip the end of the .0047 cap that is connected to the LH tab middle volume. Snip the wire that goes from star ground to LH tab tone. Connect the two snipped wires so that the two volumes (daisy chained) go to ground directly (not passing through the tone pot. Then take the .0047 cap that is connected to LH tab tone and connect it to the same star ground lug. There will still be continuity from that cap to the volumes LH tabs, but they are not daisy chained together and send to ground.

Is this correct?

[MWJB]

If the Middle vol LH tab is still connected to ground (by joining the free ends of the 2 wires I just told you to snip), then you can leave the 0.0047 cap strung from tone pot LH tab to Middle vol LH tab.

Or, you can leave one end connected to tone pot LH tab & ground the other end of the cap...the choice is yours.

[screamin eagle]

If the Middle vol LH tab is still connected to ground (by joining the free ends of the 2 wires I just told you to snip), then you can leave the 0.0047 cap strung from tone pot LH tab to Middle vol LH tab.

Or, you can leave one end connected to tone pot LH tab & ground the other end of the cap...the choice is yours.

Okay, so let me make sense of this. As I have it now, there is are two connections between the volumes and the tone. One is a direct connection via the wires that go to ground and one is through the cap. The cap is suppose to cut some of the treble, but I can't notice that because there is a second, direct connection. I think I got it right.

[MWJB]

"snip the wire that goes from LH tab middle volume to LH tab tone." Yes, just one end at the tone pot.

"Snip the end of the .0047 cap that is connected to the LH tab middle volume." Not necessarily, if tieing the grounds for the 2 vol pots to the star ground lug, you can leave it in place. Leave it in place for now.

"Snip the wire that goes from star ground to LH tab tone." Yes, just one end, at the tone pot.

"Connect the two snipped wires so that the two volumes (daisy chained) go to ground directly (not passing through the tone pot." Yes, and you are done.