Pedal Friendly Amps...?

[Mandopicker]

Hi all...

Wanted to get some opinions on what that statement really means.

1. Specifically, what are the characteristics that make for a pedal friendly amp as opposed to one that is not?

2. What can be done (from a tech standpoint) to an amp that seems to get along poorly with pedals? (This is more to the point of my question based on several recent builds and experiments with preamp tube bias and voltage.)

3. Which combinations of pedals and amplifiers seem to be the best with pedals...and those that are the worst?

Thanks in advance for any consideration.

Happy Holidays to all! Use your holiday time off wisely and open up a few amps!

[black_labb]

from what i've heard you need the first gain stage to be able to handle the extra signal strength from the pedal. maybe replace the 12ax7 with a tube that can handle more current in the first stage. would effect gain and sound, but the pedal is there to provide that anyway.

i dont use pedals, so im not the best source for this info.

[defaced]

The VHT Deliverance series of amps is said to be designed to be pedal friendly. It has a parallel stage 12AX7 input. 300v, 100k bypassed with 220pf anode, 2.2k bypassed with 470nf cathode, 33k series with 220nf grid reffed to ground by 1M.

[Mandopicker]

Thanks for the input so far...I appreciate the thoughts.

One of the things that I have done to counteract the unfriendly alliance of amp and OD pedal that seemed to make a difference was lowering the plate voltage of V1. Originally (in a single channel DR style amp without vibrato) the voltages were around 220, but I dropped them down to 180 and the unfriendly characteristic seems to be diminished.

There was a raspy edge to the notes when played around the 12th fret when the voltages were reading 220. There was a noticeable softening of the edges of the notes at the lower voltages.

The next experiment will be to play with the Preamp tube bias.

I am enjoying the really specific adjustments relative to getting the right voice of the amp.

* black_labb - Funny you say that because, when I play this particular amp without any OD or effects, it sounds incredible...so I can relate to your comments. That's why it puzzles me.

Again...thanks all.

[chipaudette]

My opinion is that, if you're talking about traditional fuzz/distortion pedals (not new-style modeling pedals and such), a "pedal friendly" amp would be any old-style amp like black-face or silver-face fender or a older 60s/70s/80s marshall.

The traditional fuzz/distortion pedals were developed and tweaked to work with the amps of the day...like the Fenders and Marshalls. That's all anyone had! So, to get the sound that you're "supposed" to have with these pedals, get one of these style amps.

I think that the key is the one stack in these amps. All the fenders had a similar tone stack and all the Marshalls had a similar tone stack. Get a different amp and the tone stack will have different corner frequencies, which has a strong impact on the sound of the fuzz/distortion. It may not actually sound "bad", but it will sound "different" than we're all used to. Some may consider that "bad".

One final comment, I have a Fender 65 Deluxe Reverb Re-issue...ie, one of these old-style amps that I was referring to. New, tt actually sounds terrbile with pedals. That's because it has a "bright" switch built-in and permanently hard-wired into the "on" position. It makes all distortion pedals way too bright, fizzy, and brittle sounding. Once I went in and clipped out the bright cap, it sounds great with pedals. The 65 DR was an abberation in the Fender line, though. Clipping out that bright cap turns a 65 DR back into a "normal" fender...hence the improvement in tone when used with pedals.

Rock on!

Chip

[R.G.]

The Workhorse line of amps was developed specifically to be pedal friendly.

There are a few 60W Stallions left at guitareffects.com, and you might find a used Stallion or Pony (30W single 12").

[Steve A.]

The Workhorse line of amps was developed specifically to be pedal friendly.

There are a few 60W Stallions left at guitareffects.com, and you might find a used Stallion or Pony (30W single 12").

So have the Workhorses been put out to pasture, so to speak? They looked very promising and I kept bugging the local GC to bring them in...

Steve Ahola

P.S. I think that the Deluxe Reverb Reissue works great with pedals- assuming that you have cut the brightness a bit. Be sure to get one of the newer ones with the Jensen C12K speaker (the older one had the C12N, which was a brighter speaker).

I just rebuilt a $149 Crate V18-112 as the clean channel of the V33, and have it voiced like a Deluxe Reverb (but without the vibrato). So I consider that to be a fairly neutral platform for my pedals (I did put in an Eminence Red, White and Blues speaker which has a very full bass response). I'll be posting the details of all of my V18 Conversions over in the Mods and Tweaks forum in the next day or two.

[Mandopicker]

Thanks again for all the input.

But still curious what are the things that can be done to an amp to make it pedal friendly?

(I have several amps, but this questions relates to Home Built single channel DR-style without vibrato that seems to not like my Sparkle Drive.) All of my other amps seems to get along just fine.

I have adjusted the plate voltage on V1 to 180 volts and everything else seems quite close to DR specs as well. Almost same resistor and cap values, too. The problem was more noticeable when the voltage was higher (220v range) before modification. It just seems to have some fizz or a brittle end to the notes when playing around the 12th fret frequency range. Rolling off teh treble helps

Again thanks all...I'll keep messing with values to dial it in...tough on the mind, but a lot of fun to figure out!

[Boogdish]

If you've got a bypass cap on the cathode of your first gain stage, you might attempt to take it out (maybe just desolder one end and listen and jumper it in and out to compare) and possibly increase the size of your cathode resistor. This will cause the stage to compress more when hit with a big signal, rather than putting out as much gain which would cause later gain stages to distort.

[BluesHawk]

Canada Guitar Effects?

The Workhorse line of amps was developed specifically to be pedal friendly.

There are a few 60W Stallions left at guitareffects.com, and you might find a used Stallion or Pony (30W single 12").

Guitar Effects...in Canada? I just emailed them, RG, and hope they can help me find a Pony, NOS or used.

BluesHawk

[R.G.]

Er... I posted that seven years ago.

Ponies turn up from time to time at music stores and on craigslist, but I've been amazed at how many are simply kept and not traded.

[Justin Thomas]

Er... I've been amazed at how many are simply kept and not traded.

That's an amazing compliment...

Justin

[robrob]

To me "pedal friendly" means two things.

An amp that stays clean at high volume that allows all the FX to be done with pedals.

An amp that doesn't freak out and chop up the signal when pushed by reverb, delay and gain pedals. The 5E3 Deluxe's cathodyne phase inverter double frequency distortion and too fat bottom are famous for this. The 5E3 can be made more "pedal friendly" by adding a phase inverter grid stopper to reduce blocking distortion and by reducing the size of the coupling cap(s) to cut excessive bass response.

[mhuss]

I agree, clean, but also plenty of headroom & dynamic range. Old Hiwatts excel in these departments.

It's easy to get distortion out of a clean amp using pedals, but the opposite is of course not true!