How Much Power Do We Need Here?

[overdrive]

Been looking into some small to medium sized tube amps & was wondering what would be the most practical choice in terms of overall size & wattage.

5 tube watts into a 10-12" speaker can get pretty loud for practicing by oneself but will easily get drowned out by a drum kit. 20 tube watts into a 12" speaker might cover the bases but is now getting a bit too loud for practicing alone, especially if one is striving for optimum tone.

Obviously the simple & costlier solution would be to have 2-3 amplifiers (i.e. a 1/2 watt Gilmore Jr., perhaps something along the lines of a Champ, & then maybe a Deluxe).

General room dimensions for both solo practicing & group work are also factors in this equation...size-wise we're probably looking at square-footage equivalent to a 2-3 car garage.

Seeking general opinions & user experience(s) with the Victoria (tweed replicas) & Orange lines (e.g. Crush & AD5)...tone & reliabiity issues being the most pertinent.

[Chuck H]

5 tube watts into a 10-12" speaker can get pretty loud for practicing by oneself but will easily get drowned out by a drum kit. 20 tube watts into a 12" speaker might cover the bases but is now getting a bit too loud for practicing alone, especially if one is striving for optimum tone.

Obviously the simple & costlier solution would be to have 2-3 amplifiers (i.e. a 1/2 watt Gilmore Jr., perhaps something along the lines of a Champ, & then maybe a Deluxe).

Is this a question or an observation. If it's a question you've answered yourself. You need two different volume levels. One amp that is limited to one volume level therefor can't do both. You could look into attenuator devices. I designed a simple and effective one you can build found here:http://music-electronics-forum.com/t16468/

Seeking general opinions & user experience(s) with the Victoria (tweed replicas) & Orange lines (e.g. Crush & AD5)...tone & reliabiity issues being the most pertinent.

IMHE you can't really get a personally useful answer from anyone else regarding what tone is best for you. Guys with the Victoria will vote Victoria and guys with the Orange will vote Orange and guys that own niether can't really say. Asking others for what amounts to a highly biased opinion will make your decision harder, not easier. Just search and read the replies to the many "which amp", "which speaker", etc. posts and you'll see what I mean. You'll need to play through both (with your guitar) and decide what you like. JM2C on this.

Chuck

[cminor9]

I don't take your post as asking about specific amps, cause that would be dumb. How would we know what you like? It seems you are just looking for a correctly powered amp. Generally speaking, something in the 15-20 watt range might be worth checking out.

I built a 5E3 and a Spitfire clone, and those are my main gigging/practice amps. Both are about 15w. Some guys here complain about 5E3's not being enough to gig with a band and in their cases they are probably right. I gig with a R&B/Blues band and my cranked 5E3 can be a bit overwhelming if I am not conscious of it. I also gig with a jazz combo and the subdued 5E3 is just puuuuurfect. I don't gig with a hard rock band, but the R&B/Blues band does some classic rock songs which call for loud guitars, and again, either amp delivers the goods. How loud do *you* need to go?

A lot of it has to do with speaker choice and who you are playing with. Running a 15 watt amp through two efficient speakers can be very loud. A 15 watt combo is great provided you aren't looking for loud clean, or are not playing with 16 year old kids who insist on cranking Hot Rod Devilles. It might be a problem if your drummer has aggression problems and pummels his drums to mush. But assuming you play with reasonable people you'll do just fine.

So now you have to figure out what you want in an amp. Do you want a fat sound or a cutting sound? Need something loud and clean, or you want a good dirty tone? Do you need or want something dynamic or are you the kind of player who just uses one setting on the guitar knobs and one attack? Do you need reverb or tremolo? Do you use effect pedals? Do you need or want a master volume? And most importantly, what sounds good to you? Are you trying to get in the ballpark of a tone you heard on a record? (in which case, find out what amp/guitar you are hearing)

Make a list of what you need, but then play amps that have what you need. Also, play some well-regarded amps that you don't think would work. If you would have asked me five years ago if I wanted an amp without reverb, I would have declined to even play it. But now, I don't care for reverb; the 5E3 cured me of that. You too might be surprised by how awesome a "simple" amp can be if you are used to playing amps laden with "features". Try a 5E3, try a spitfire, try an orange, try a marshall 18watt if you can find one. Try an ac-15 if you can. Try a deluxe reverb.

One last piece of advice: don't buy just for the garage. You intend to play somewhere someday? Then consider that too. Generally speaking, you may love playing loud. But if you go play at a bar or restaurant or some private event, chances are people will appreciate your not being too loud because lets face it: until you become a rock star and start selling out clubs, people aren't coming specifically to see you. They are coming to enjoy an evening out and we as musicians are background to everyone except maybe the other musicians in the room who are really digging it. Buy something that can get *your* sound at moderate volumes. It'll get you more gigs, guaranteed.

[overdrive]

Thanks Cm9. I was pretty much leaning towards the 5E3 direction. Used to have a pre-CBS BF Princeton Reverb that unfortunately 'got chucked' when the parents sold & cleared out the house...imagine it wound up at GW or some church bazaar.

Not quite sure, but I think that particular amp was about 10-12 watts or so & had a 10" speaker...worked well enough at the time & I kind of wish I still had it today.

I am planning to stay clear of the big name factory 're-issues' & 3rd world manufactured stuff...seems to be too many manufacturing compromises & potential QA issues. Like who's doing the supervising? May opt for a first-time kit build if the general price ranges from a small US builder begin to exceed $1,800 or so for a 5E3 style amplifier. Never built an amp before but do build my own fxs.

[cminor9]

I'd heartily recommend a 5E3 that you build yourself.

You could get a good quality kit (Mission perhaps) for about $800. Take your time and build it right and you'll have a quality amp.

Many people tout the celestion blue speaker in these. I have a weber blue dog, which is their take on this speaker. I really, really like it. I recently bought a Warehouse Veteran 30. I think I might like it even better? I bought a Weber 12A150A, which is their take on the old Jensen p12n. Wasn't a fan of that speaker in the 5E3 (though it's nice in other amps.)