Trainwreck on Ebay

[tubetonez]

http://cgi.ebay.com/1986-trainwreck-...QQcmdZViewItem

[Slobrain]

Man, 57K ? Ken built some really great amps but 57K? I dunno???

How much is a great tone really worth these days?

I wonder what will hapen to EVH's gear when Eddie passes? EVH vintage Marshall, 1 Billion dollars? Mutt strat 2 bill?


SLO

[Mark Hammer]

Man, 57K ? Ken built some really great amps but 57K? I dunno???

How much is a great tone really worth these days?

A buddy told me he tried one last summer, and had become convinced to make it his life goal at the time to purchase one. Apparently they ARE that good.

But, Ken's not gonna make any more of them, sadly. He's quick to point out in the interview with Dave Hunter in the current Vintage Guitar that while he was honoured that his amps are so revered, he didn't actually see any of that money. (Although note that a commemorative "one last Trainwreck" is being put together by his buddies for auction, with proceeds going to his family, and particularly the nursing home upkeep of his elderly mother.)

What I worry about is that this amp looks like it could have been made by anyone, and there are enough clear photos that an unscrupulous person could easily sell convincing forgeries. With Kenny gone, and unavailable to authenticate, how does the purchaser know that they are getting the real deal, especially when the amps look like one-offs? And with sale prices that high, the incentive to clone forgeries is VERY high. I have no worries about well-informed high-end buyers. They will have their contacts and second opinions available. But as "the legend of Kenny" grows, potential buyers will now begin to include the less well-informed, and the potential for rip-offs increases.

[Steve Conner]

So what exactly is so special about it? Transformers hand-wound by a dozen Balinese virgins to Ken Fischer's personal specifications? NOS tubes that were part of Lee De Forest's grave goods? Or maybe it's the NOS dymo tape lettering that does it...

Not that it's an experiment anyone will ever get the chance to try, but I bet if you put the guts of a Trainwreck into a Crate head cabinet, you could convince people it was only average sounding soon enough. Could anyone hear the difference between a real Wreck and a forgery by an experienced builder with access to photos and schematics? If you bought a forgery for $20k and believe you have a real one, and it sounds the same, are you any worse off? What exactly is "tone", anyway?

[Mark Hammer]

Well, my buddy Andy techs for a number of high profile bands. Given that some open up for other even higher profile bands, or have high profile bands opening for them, he gets to see, hear, and try out a lot of legendary amps. He also has the opportunity to snag some nice pieces himself, during his travels. I take his praise to imply that there is something distinctly different in how this amp responds.

The point of my posting, however, was not to extol the virtues of Ken Fischer. Rather, the point was that legend + rarity + mojo + high prices + inability to authenticate = high risk of ripoff.

I posted about this elsewhere, but there was an interesting article in VG a few months ago on fake 18W Marshalls being sold as legits for as much as $20. The author illustrated the subtle cosmetic differences between the real thing and the fakes he has run into. The amps don't sound bad, and may even be built reasonably well. But I can pay someone $3k to make me a Bluesbreaker clone with a guarantee. The extra $17k should be for buying a real piece of history, not a fake pedigree.

As the author of the article points out, because there are so few original 18W Marshalls out there, many folks will never have seen, or even have the opportunity to see or try out, a real one. This puts them in a very weak position with respect to being able to detect a fake.

In the case of guitars, a lot of the oldest and rarest vintage pieces have fairly distinctive traits and often finishing that demands a great deal of workmanship. Moreover, many detailed pictures exist of the entire instrument. The same is not often true of older amps. I have absolutely no idea what the inside of of a plexi looks like, and the outside can be easily mimicked. I can buy NOS tubes and "age" tweed much easier than I could get a worn fingerboard or a specific generation of Kluson tuners. Picking up a couple of speakers of correct vintage might cost me a couple hundred, but if I can sell the result for $20k its a great investment.

I guess what makes me saddest here is that I wouldn't want Ken's legacy to go down in a wave of fakes of mediocre tone. His reputation shouldn't have to suffer people hearing fakes and saying "Not bad, I suppose, but my Crate sounds almost as good for $600".

[TD_Madden]

Ummm...Ken died on 23 Dec 2006.

http://www.trainwreck.com/

Rest In Peace, Ken.

[Slobrain]

Well, I see that the fellow auctioning this amp closed the auction so I wonder if it sold or he had a change of heart?

Regarding Ken's amp, I would probably say that they are very special in tone as I think Ken's heart was put into every detail, especially the tone. Its a shame he never made any real money from these amps but as history shows most who make great things never really receive the rewards until they die.
Then good praise of their fruits of labor.

I hope who ever are building the last wreck really gets alot of money to help Ken’s family.

Ken will be remembered, not only by his amps but remembered for what a cool guy he was. Back in 1992 I was working on a fender bassman amp and my wife had just bought me (The tube amp book) by Pittman. Well me being kind of a bold person, I had seen Ken's phone number in the book and called him to ask a few questions that the local techs would not tell me.

Ken was so informative and cool to talk to, he seemed to really enjoy just talking amps and gave me so much info it made my head spin. It was great to talk to some one so knowledgeable and have them explain how certain parts of the amp affect tone. I think I must have spoken to Ken for almost an hour not realizing who he really was, but I still remember the conversation well. In those days I was just starting to get into what tube amp mods that could be done like going from
6L6 to EL34 in that bassman.

Sometimes it’s not what you made in life but how you treated someone that leaves the best lasting impression. I hope Ken is happy on the other side. I'm sure there are alot of techs and musicians there that he can talk too and discuss great tone. Probably talking tone with Jimi as we type these posts.

R.I.P. Ken

SLO

[geetarpicker]

I've owned my Trainwreck Express amp since the late 80s. They are AMAZING sounding amps.

As simple as they are, cloning one is VERY difficult, as all the details matter. Also some of the components used are no longer made. I've tried a few clones and have yet to play one that was very convincing. That said I'm sure folks will get better at figuring out and respecting the details of these amps as the years go by.

It is very sad that Ken went so soon, and that he really never made much money building amps at all. The high values placed on them happened after Ken became to sick to build anymore. Most say he only made about 100 amps total.

I recently released an instrumental guitar CD that features Ken Fischer built Trainwreck amps throughout. Also my "myspace" page has some soundclips and videos. I thought you folks might like to check it out.
_______________________________
www.myspace.com/glenkuykendall

[Steve Conner]

When you tried clones against your Wreck, it was a blind test, right? If you knew you were playing the best amp in the world, or a clone, is the test valid? Anyway, I checked out your myspace, great sounding tracks!

[Circuit1]

[QUOTE=geetarpicker;16706]I've owned my Trainwreck Express amp since the late 80s. They are AMAZING sounding amps.

As simple as they are, cloning one is VERY difficult, as all the details matter. Also some of the components used are no longer made. I've tried a few clones and have yet to play one that was very convincing. That said I'm sure folks will get better at figuring out and respecting the details of these amps as the years go by.

It is very sad that Ken went so soon, and that he really never made much money building amps at all. The high values placed on them happened after Ken became to sick to build anymore. Most say he only made about 100 amps total.

QUOTE]

Glen,

Ken was a very good friend indeed. I'll always miss his conversation--he was a true "guru", or teacher of the highest caliber to those of us who were lucky enough to have his ear. More than that, he was a great person to just call up and shoot the bull with. I hadn't spoken to him for a while--and I was saddened to learn what happened to him after speaking to Mona on Monday after his passing. He will always be my largest influence/mentor in the realm of audio. His imparted knolwedge will not be forgotten. Ken was a very good man indeed.

Regarding Wreck clones: +1000 on every point raised above! Every detail in an amplifier matters and his were exceptionally unique in details like marked values--say a 100K resistor--actually consistently measured at a specific point he chose--say 105K. It's these types of things that allowed him to protect his designs since he had no other recourse. As he and I loved to talk about regarding our designs, a schematic will only get you about 80% close--the remainder of the music lives in the fine details.

[eyesonly]

I wonder what will hapen to EVH's gear when Eddie passes? EVH vintage Marshall, 1 Billion dollars? Mutt strat 2 bill?

SLO

I don't think there's any chance of not being able to build an EVH amp but it's interesting that many stories and rumors surrounded his early gear. Anyway we will see what happens next year when Eddie dies of cancer.

If the Trainwreck was any good money would have been made. It just that so few were made and the fact he stopped making them and then died that a mystique has occurred.

Don't believe the hype, these were a $1500 amp

[Bruce / Mission Amps]

I don't think there's any chance of not being able to build an EVH amp but it's interesting that many stories and rumors surrounded his early gear. Anyway we will see what happens next year when Eddie dies of cancer.

If the Trainwreck was any good money would have been made. It just that so few were made and the fact he stopped making them and then died that a mystique has occurred.

Don't believe the hype, these were a $1500 amp

Gads, ... are you ever uninformed, probably tone deaf or tasteless if you can say that after hearing a real Trainwreck, totally behind the times and a negative piece of work.

[Steve Conner]

Well, a Van Gogh only has about $50 worth of materials in it. They only sell for $82 million because of "hype", same as the Trainwreck.