The Pixies strumming sound (can a Vox AC30 nail it?)

[jeremygrim]

I'm trying to nail the tone of Frank Black's strumming in the above video (you can hear it pretty well in the very start) - I picked up the same exact guitar he's using and I'm splitting the coils to single coil. Pretty clanky, but not quite as jangly and clanky as Frank's, and that's probably because it's going through a crappy old Peavey bass amp.

So it's time to invest in an amp. I'm looking at the Vox AC30cc2. I know Frank used the AC30 and Marshall JCM800 but I really don't think I can afford the Marshall, so right now I'm looking at the Vox AC30CC2.

I found a Vox AC30cc2 with the actual GZ34 rectifier tube for $800. The description says it has VOX custom GSH12-30 speakers.

BUT! I also found a Vox AC30c2 with Celestion G12M Greenback Speakers / Effects Loop for the same price.

I've heard the CC2 is generally better but then again I've heard Greenbacks are the way to go. What would you gear-geniuses recommend for the pixies strumming tone? (Frank Black's, not Joey's) Or is a Vox not the way to go at all?

Thanks guys!!

(Also it's possible some of that tone comes from the TC Electronic Booster, Line Driver and Distortion pedal he uses, it's hard to imagine that's a guitar and amp alone)

[cminor9]

Frank Black has been known to play AC-30s. I also see some Marshalls there and he has also been known to play Marshalls. As far as what it sounds like, that's not exactly the traditional Vox tone I am used to (I can usually pick it out, too) but with a pedal just about anything is possible I guess.

When I think of the classic dirty vox tone, I think of U2, or Tom Petty. Check out U2's Beautiful Day or Red Hill Mining Town. For Tom Petty, listen to the tone on Last Dance with Mary Jane or Runnin Down a Dream. To me, the signature vox tone is sort of a grainy sound if that makes sense, with a lot of high mids. I don't hear that in the clip per se, it's a little bit there but not quite. It could be a vox. But if it is, I'd be willing to bet he is running some kind of pedal into it. The pedal is the other part you will be missing.

As for speakers, the vox comes with celestion blues. That's a huge part of the sound.

[jeremygrim]

But for an amp, do you think the Vox AC30CC2 or the Marshall JCM800 could more faithfully reproduce his tone in the video?

Yeah, I've heard about the celestion blues. That's the thing, the amp I'm looking at it as $800 AC30CC2 (pretty good price for the custom classic) but the description lists the speakers as "VOX custom GSH12-30 speakers", which are, if I'm not mistaken, Wharfedales. I think.

[rf7]

Don't buy that AC30CC without the Celestion Blues. They really make a huge difference.

[jeremygrim]

Don't buy that AC30CC without the Celestion Blues. They really make a huge difference.

Really? What kind of difference? I mean, I'm not necessarily looking for the "classic AC30" tone, I'm looking for as close to the tone in the pixies vid as possible...

[nashvillebill]

My somewhat-blasphemous point of view is that nailing a particular sound is best served by digital processing, whether a good modelling amp or pedal, just something good with DSP.

Otherwise, you will be chasing an elusive goal of finding *exactly* the guitar that was used in the original recording, the *exact* same pedals, the exact same amp, the exact same speakers in the amp, the exact same guitar settings, the exact same amp EQ settings, the exact same pedal settings, the exact same volume levels, the exact same room conditions, not to mention the exact same mic placement when the recording was made, the recording console settings, and the post-recording processing. Whew!

Then when you finally do nail that tone in your practice space at home, and go to band rehearsal, your sound isn't the same, because now you're playing in a band with their instruments being played at the same time, and you have different volume levels, in a different room. So you tweak to get the sound right for rehearsal...and go play live in a club. The rehearsal settings likely aren't good there either! So you have to adjust again! Three different setups.

At least with DSP you can save settings and make changes quickly on the fly (once you learn how to setup the DSP). Sure it may not be quite perfect, but it'll be 97% there maybe. And you will have flexibility to change to different sounds live, so you won't play a gig in a "only got one sound" mode.

[jeremygrim]

My somewhat-blasphemous point of view is that nailing a particular sound is best served by digital processing, whether a good modelling amp or pedal, just something good with DSP.

Otherwise, you will be chasing an elusive goal of finding *exactly* the guitar that was used in the original recording, the *exact* same pedals, the exact same amp, the exact same speakers in the amp, the exact same guitar settings, the exact same amp EQ settings, the exact same pedal settings, the exact same volume levels, the exact same room conditions, not to mention the exact same mic placement when the recording was made, the recording console settings, and the post-recording processing. Whew!

Then when you finally do nail that tone in your practice space at home, and go to band rehearsal, your sound isn't the same, because now you're playing in a band with their instruments being played at the same time, and you have different volume levels, in a different room. So you tweak to get the sound right for rehearsal...and go play live in a club. The rehearsal settings likely aren't good there either! So you have to adjust again! Three different setups.

At least with DSP you can save settings and make changes quickly on the fly (once you learn how to setup the DSP). Sure it may not be quite perfect, but it'll be 97% there maybe. And you will have flexibility to change to different sounds live, so you won't play a gig in a "only got one sound" mode.

Well actually, I'm not really trying to exactly recreate the tone in the studio recordings, but rather the tone in the live video that I posted and most of the late 80s, early 90s pixies live videos of Frank's strumming. I think I actually do have the exact same guitar Frank Black used, and I know the amps and pedals he used... (well, not the Amp year / model and I guess a modern AC30 or JCM800 is a lot different from the vintage ones...)

It's just a matter of which amp will get me closest. I don't know anything about DSP....

[cminor9]

My somewhat-blasphemous point of view is that nailing a particular sound is best served by digital processing, whether a good modelling amp or pedal, just something good with DSP.

The same thought came to me. I despise Pods and things like that, but that's because I'd rather find my own tone. But I think you have hit on THE purpose for those things, nailing a certain tone.

Then again, OP has already invest in pursuing this tone, with the guitar and all.

I don't know if I'd spend a lot of cash on something like a new Vox though. I have heard mixed reviews about those. Maybe I am getting jaded by this whole gear thing, but if I were going to plunk down cash for an amp, it would not be some made-in-China approximation of a famous amp with the wrong (cheaper) speakers. It also would not be for something I could hand build better and cheaper (looking at you, Fender DRRI), it would be for a Dr Z or something. But that's just me

[nashvillebill]

Another thought: the OP indicated he has been playing through a bass amp. Not a "real" guitar amp but a bass amp. Merely changing to a regular guitar amp, even a low budget Peavey Transtube 112 or whatever they are called now, will sound a heckuva lot brighter than the bass amp. Perhaps it would even sound...quite good.

Also, I didn't pick up on the OP's musical goals--playing out live, jamming in the garage with friends, or bedroom practicing only? And what other musical tastes will the OP try to branch out towards? The flexibility of DSP amps really helps here. (Check out the Peavey Vypyrs) Peavey.com

It's kinda like this. I have an old Ampeg V4 sitting in the closet. Sounds absolutely fantastic cranked, if I want to nail the Stones "Sympathy for the Devil" on their Get Yer Ya-Yas Out, that amp does it. BUT it's insanely loud and heavy, and without stompboxes or pedals, it's almost useless for any other situation. So it stays in the closet.

[jeremygrim]

I don't know if I'd spend a lot of cash on something like a new Vox though. I have heard mixed reviews about those. Maybe I am getting jaded by this whole gear thing, but if I were going to plunk down cash for an amp, it would not be some made-in-China approximation of a famous amp with the wrong (cheaper) speakers. It also would not be for something I could hand build better and cheaper (looking at you, Fender DRRI), it would be for a Dr Z or something. But that's just me

Man, I don't know, I'm not the "building amp" kinda guy, I just want to find an amp for a decent price that can accurately nail this Pixies tone. It doesn't need to be a genius masterpiece of an amp... but I checked out Dr. Z, and that stuff is pretty damn sweet although out of my price range (I'd probably go for a Marshall JCM800 if I had more than 1000 to spend)

Another thought: the OP indicated he has been playing through a bass amp. Not a "real" guitar amp but a bass amp. Merely changing to a regular guitar amp, even a low budget Peavey Transtube 112 or whatever they are called now, will sound a heckuva lot brighter than the bass amp. Perhaps it would even sound...quite good.

Also, I didn't pick up on the OP's musical goals--playing out live, jamming in the garage with friends, or bedroom practicing only? And what other musical tastes will the OP try to branch out towards? The flexibility of DSP amps really helps here. (Check out the Peavey Vypyrs) Peavey.com

It's kinda like this. I have an old Ampeg V4 sitting in the closet. Sounds absolutely fantastic cranked, if I want to nail the Stones "Sympathy for the Devil" on their Get Yer Ya-Yas Out, that amp does it. BUT it's insanely loud and heavy, and without stompboxes or pedals, it's almost useless for any other situation. So it stays in the closet.

Well I'd like an amp that's versatile for different situations. Mostly it's me just messing around and playing in my bedroom and also with friends but there would definitely be some gigs down the road. As long as it can maintain that tone I'm looking for.

And as far as versatile tones go, the more flexible the better for me, but it's gotta be able to replicate the tone I'm looking for. I can probably sacrifice some flexibility for that tone. That's why I was looking at the AC30CC2, I've heard it's really flexible tone-wise.

[J M Fahey]

Really? What kind of difference? I mean, I'm not necessarily looking for the "classic AC30" tone, I'm looking for as close to the tone in the pixies vid as possible...

Well, for one, in the 80's they sure weren't playing chinese Vox clones but older British original ones.
Do you think in the 90's they traded their old trusty fantastic sounding original amps for reissues?
I wouldn't be so sure about that.
2) They definitely weren't using "Wharfedales", whatever that label means applied to chinese made guitar speakers (Wharfedale did *only* make very high quality Hi Fi speakers)
3) An original AC30 is VERY different from an AC30CC.
To begin with, it *never* had:

a number of modern enhancements including blendable channels, a true bypass FX loop, spring reverb and master volume, to name just a few,

4) So the sound is not and can not be the same.
Way too many variables were changed.
Sorry.

[jeremygrim]

Right, I know that, but the Pixies didn't necessarily use the "classic AC30" sound either. My point wasn't that the CC2 was anything like the original AC30, I know it isn't. My point was that I'm trying to get the pixies tone, not the AC30 tone, so any amp that can reproduce that tone will be a fine fit for me, (including the AC30). However I think in the video he might not be using an AC30 at all. Looks more like the JCM 800...

[riz]

I'm pretty sure Frank Black never thought about it this much.

[jeremygrim]

I'm pretty sure Frank Black never thought about it this much.

probably true, but that doesn't mean I can replicate his tone by doing the same...

[riz]

My point was pretty much that I think Frank would/could sound like that through anything, and I think you could get close a whole bunch of different ways. I don't think you'll go wrong with an AC-30. You can get a whole lotta rock out of that amp. I would love to have one!