Deluxe reverb clone Output transformer question

[Wrongdog]

Can an Output transformer be too "hi-Fi" sounding??

I built a California Dreamer Deluxe Reverb variant and I have never been happy with the bass response and overall tone. I used an Edcor GXPP15-8-5k which is a 15 watt 40-18khz 5k primary and 8 ohm output. Was that my mistake?

I have checked every apsect of the amp build repeatedly and it is just too Hi-Fi sounding for me. I pull it out, play it, get dismayed, check everything and stuff it back in the amp locker. Bass is big but not as robust as it should be and seems too mid range even with TBM mids eq'd down alot. We are talking bass on 7-8, mids on 4 and treble on 4-5. That is NOT a typical DR EQ setup.

I have tried many speakers from vintage Jensen, Webers and Neo Jensens and now a WGS ET65. All sound good but I don't think of speakers as the problem. Should I just buy a Triode Classic Tone Deluxe OT and sub it in??? Help! Thanks!

[Enzo]

Link us the schematic as built.

[Raybob]

.. Should I just buy a Triode Classic Tone Deluxe OT and sub it in??? Help! Thanks!

Yes, they work wonders. I like Magnetic Components Classic Tone trannys. Rough looking varnish job but sound great and great price. If you use 2-6L6 tubes, get the 40-18006. It's 40 watts, has secondaries for 4-8-16 ohms.

[Wrongdog]

It is basically the California Dreamer from the AX84 site

http://ax84.com/media/ax84_m172.jpg

The link to the Tweed Reverb by Steve Luckey is broken but that is what I built. The main differences are no bias switch, added master volume pre PI and a foot switchable negative feedback option. All else is the same all the way as the AX84 schematic.

[MWJB]

What kind of master volume did you add pre PI?

Whilst it is possible that a Deluxe style OT might get you nearer what you are shooting for, the Deluxe OT is bigger than the one you have now.

Before you sub out the OT, how does the tone compare to other deluxe reverbs? Rather than focussing on one, which if it is at least functioning as expected should be giving you ball park performance, perhaps look at the more obvious, simpler things first, like voltage that you have, power tube bias & preamp tube configuration...e.g. if I had a blackface Fender that was too clean the first thing I would do is fit a 12AX7 in the PI.

[Wrongdog]

MWJB - thanks for reply. I posted the wrong OT# its a XPP15-8-5K . The Edcor OT is MUCH bigger than a DR stock OT. That's what prompted the too "Hi-Fi" analogy. Is it too big and Hi-Fi like? I don't want a loud Vibroverb (well I'd take one!). My goal was to make a lower power reverb amp - the classic BFDR. The Edcor XPP15-8-5K OT literally weighs a pound or so more.

http://www.edcorusa.com/products/356-xpp15-8-5k.aspx

As far as comparing to other DR's it is as punchy as the best that come in through my humble backyard repair shop but definitely not as "large" on the low end and a little more on the top and mids. Not a bad thing but not what I want. All this even when using the same speakers.

A while ago I did lower the pre-amp voltages a bit to get a bit "browner" tone and added the switchable negative feedback but that is all about gain. BTW I do have 12ax7 in the PI. The MV is between the 1.uf and 220k resistor after V3b and before the PI. I was thinking of changing it to a dual ganged post PI since I like those much more. Do you suspect that is an issue??

Oh! The only other deviant is an EZ81 rectifier since my PT had no 5v tap but that should not matter.

Thanks for reading all this!!

[pdf64]

It may be that there's a mistake which you just can't see for looking; post some photos of the build, as detailed as possible and perhaps someone may spot something amiss.
Re EZ81, what's the VB+ at no signal and max clean output? Surely an EZ81 would be hard pushed in this amp?

[Wrongdog]

WOW! I am scary!

I checked voltages and I am WAY off and have always been way off with this PT. It was a donor PT and its too small. I have 330-0-330 ac which is ok. I am only getting 380dc at the ez81 and 370's at the 6v6 - about 60 dc volts across the board short of a DR right?? What was I thinking using that PT!? The choke must be dropping too much and the PT does not have MA rating to drive this maybe? It does not run hot though??

Man, I am a dolt...I guess I will try getting a proper PT and put 5v rectifer in it then see what I have.

[pdf64]

330-0-330 is good. Looking for ~420VB+. Probably the EZ81 is being worked too hard.
Assuming that the PT current rating is sufficient, try Si diodes and a sag resistor, 50 to 100 ohms @20 watts.

[Wrongdog]

Yeah - that was one of my thoughts...But will I see the the sag of 5U4 or 5y3 with a SS rectifier?

[pdf64]

With a suitable sag resistor, yes, as near as dammit.

[Wrongdog]

Okay - that's the ticket! I will mess with that for now but maybe I should do this amp right sometime. I always hobble my stuff together and some times I stirkes it big and others not so much. This one not so much...

[imaradiostar]

You may want to just try solid state rectifiers and modern 6V6's that can take the voltage in stride. Lots of people are raving about the JJ 6V6's. I have tried them at slightly lower voltages and really like them but I haven't tried them in a deluxe yet.

jamie

[Wrongdog]

Jamie - Thanks. I am running JJ 6v6's. They sound pretty good and are reliable. Since I have a 9 pin EZ81 in it I can't just stick SS 8 pin Rectifier. I will just make one and see. I am thinking I may bypass the choke and use a resistor instead. Maybe that will get the B+ up and be less draw on the PT.

Thoughts anyone??

[cminor9]

Okay - that's the ticket! I will mess with that for now but maybe I should do this amp right sometime. I always hobble my stuff together and some times I stirkes it big and others not so much. This one not so much...

Yeah! You pay so much for the materials, why not build em solid? If you just hobble them together, can you really trust it on a gig? Build that thing to be road worthy!