Amp Enclosure

[SpareRibs]

Hello,
I don't know if this is the right place for this question, I guess it can be moved if not. What I would like to know is about a Crate (I know!!!) GX-40C. I have seen on another post that sealing the cabinet it may increase the sound, it also mentioned stuffing with fiberglass, another thing it mentioned was porting. I was wondering if any of these changes would give it more presence and add some bass to the sound so it does not sound so transparent?
It has 2-8"speakers with an open back so I was hoping this could be improved on without a lot of problems or money

[loudthud]

It is doubtful that any significant improvement can be made to the stock speakers. Try playing the amp while the back is laying on a carpeted floor or some sofa cushions. Lining the cabinet with fibreglass is a HiFi trick that cuts down the mids in a guitar amp. Usually not what you would call an improvement. The biggest improvement you can make is to get another cabinet with bigger speakers.

[soundguruman]

Well actually, putting any amount of effort or money into a crate is like waxing a garbage truck.
Invest your money into professional equipment.

[Enzo]

You know, I have been in this business a very long time, and in that time, I can;t think of a single positive result to be had by trashing someone's possessions. Sometimes people make purchase decisions we might not agree with. Sometimes people can;t afford a purchase at all, and have whatever they can come up with. SOmetimes they actually LIKE something we might not like ourselves. For example, I know guys married to women I would not want to see every day, I tell you. But I sure as hell am not going to say to anyone, "Gee, your wife is an asshole." Nor would I say, "Your wife isn;t very attractive, why don;t you get a real wife." Telling someone you think his amp is junk is not helpful at all, and is downright RUDE.

Ultimately, a guitar amp is a wooden box with a metal chassis full of electronic parts inside, and maybe a speaker. If someone wants to try to make his wooden box full of stuff somehow better, what do we gain by telling him he is being stupid? WHy should we not want to help that person find out about what makes those wooden boxes better? And what changes we can make inside them? Perhaps a little direction into what makes an amp you don;t like into one you do might better prepare the guy to select a future amp more to your liking. Assuming your taste matters to him.

If you can;t or won;t help someone, at least don;t smack him in the face.

Others may disagree.

[soundguruman]

Advising people not to put any money into Crate equipment is very good advice. In fact it is some of the very best advice I've ever given.
Crate is probably one of the least reliable, most problem prone types of equipment I can remember, having worked on guitar amplifiers for over 36 years.
And I have worked on a lot of em' -since before printed circuit boards were seen.
Sorry, I just can't tell people that fixing one or buying one is a good idea, because if I said it, it wouldn't be truthful.
No matter how much effort or money you put into one, it's going to break again for another reason, soon.
Many dealers who sold these amps came to the same conclusion, which probably is why Crate is no longer around to sell more of them.
Sorry to break the news to you, but these amps are garbage. However, used as a door stop or boat anchor.....may yield more reliable operation.

[Enzo]

But Crate is still around, alive and well. Loud Technologies purchased the brand, along with Ampeg, from the SLM people. SLM now concentrates on instruments, and Loud has added those brands to its lines of electronics.

And printed circuit boards have been around well over 50 years, so I don;t know how you predate them. My first transistor radio was in my hands in the 1950s. Crate amps have always been on pc boards.

I suppose the CLiff jacks in Crates are less reliable than the identical; Cliff jacks used in Marshalls. And the TI TIP142 transistors Crate uses are somehow less reliable than the same TI TIP142 transistors used by Fender. And so on.

I disagree with you. If you want to tell someone not to buy Crate when they are shopping for an amp, go right ahead. people ask me for brand recommendations all the time. But after they have already made the purchase, all you are doing is alienating the customer. I don;t know how you treat your customers, but in my shop I treat them and their gear with respect. SOme kid with a Gorilla amp - and please don;t try to tell me Crate products are not better made than Gorilla crap - may not know any better now, but one day he will have moved up to a professional amp. And when that amp needs service, who will he turn to? The guy who was respectful, polite and professional? Or the asshole who told him he was stupid?

You don;t have to tell someone it is a great idea to do anything, but would it kill you to be nice about it? If a kid wants to try something on his Crate, he could just a easily wonder the same thing about his Fender. Might be some value in educating that person about how his points of interest work. Or just sneer at him and call him a fool. That makes friends, and sure builds up respect for you too.

[soundguruman]

I suppose that if crate had made amplifiers that would last, we would not have that attitude.

[Gtr_tech]

Wow....severe case of "Crate hate"

I really don't see too many catastrophic failures with anything Crate. Same handful of problems any other amp can/will have. And in Crate's defense, they always used nice fiberglass boards (where PV uses phenolic) and CTS (not ching-chang) pots. My biggest problems with Crate are the units that don't have screened component IDs on the pcb, and the use of zener regulators instead of 3 terminal regs.

[soundguruman]

When I had the Crate service center in Honolulu, I simply stopped fixing them, because I did not want to take responsibility.

I sent the amps back to the factory for repairs, they did a horrible job repairing them.

1. The factory techs claimed that: "crate amps are for temporary usage only." One of the amps that the factory repaired went up in smoke after 45 minutes, at half power, into an 8 ohm load.

2. The circuit board was charcoal, and we sent it back a second time. The factory techs soldered new parts into the charcoal, and sent it back as "repaired." It of course overheated and blew up again.

3. I really felt sorry for the customers who bought these things.

4. Heat rises. Perhaps the people who designed these amps need to learn this eternal principle. Transistors are NOT fireproof, and neither is fiberglass, surprise.

5. If an amp design turns on and runs for ten minutes, apparently Crate believed that it was ready to sell to customers. Whoops.

6. If Crate made amplifiers worthy of praise, then we would praise them.

7. You can stick an "Ampeg" logo on the outside of a crate amp, but it's still a crate amp on the inside. We won't be fooled again.

[SpareRibs]

OK,OK,
If I bolt a fire extinguisher on it and promise only to play it in a shower stall, can I close the back????????

[loudthud]

Is the GX-40C one of those little amps with stereo chorus and a pair of smallish speakers? I actually sat in on guitar at a bar gig and played one of those. I thought it sounded good for what it was. A big improvement would be to hook it to a pair of bigger speakers. Something like 10s or 12s. Playing on it's back will give you an idea if there is any improvement to be made. If the power cord sticks out the back, use sofa cushions.

[soundguruman]

Many of these amps, with design that assumes heat sinks down instead of up, like Behringer and crate, etc...can be modified with a small cooling fan, which makes all the difference. I do that quite often these days. I run the 12V fan from a 7 VDC supply, which keeps the noise acceptable. This can kill about 30 degrees of the heat, and allow the amp to live a normal lifetime.

[cminor9]

Many of these amps, with design that assumes heat sinks down instead of up, like Behringer and crate, etc...can be modified with a small cooling fan, which makes all the difference. I do that quite often these days. I run the 12V fan from a 7 VDC supply, which keeps the noise acceptable. This can kill about 30 degrees of the heat, and allow the amp to live a normal lifetime.

I don't like Crate, mostly because it was one of my first amps and it sounded like crap, but how do they design assuming heat rises down? Because the tubes are under the chassis? Fender does the same thing, you know.

I know a guy who worked there as a tech. He said it was pretty depressing for the engineers, who were of course good engineers, but were told to design an amp with x features at y price. You can't make a Fender Deluxe Reverb soundalike and sell it for $300, not if you want to stay in business. They cater to the lower end market. It's a market that has to be served.

I find myself agreeing with and with Enzo. Yeah, Crate is crap and putting money into it won't make it sound like a Fender. But on the other hand, the guy could really learn something and make his amp sound good enough to last longer. So he can save up more money for his next amp.

SpareRibs, I'd second Loudthud's advice. Get a bigger speaker. I'd suggest Weber or Warehouse Guitar Speakers. If you ever upgrade the amp, keep the speaker. It'll likely be better than what comes in even a Fender or whatever.

[soundguruman]

The point being: don't invest time and money in garbage.
If you are going to invest time and money, put it into something that retains some value. That is an ethical suggestion that repair techs can make to any customer or any music store owner. And it's REALLY good advice.
In the meantime, our local Craig's list and music stores are packed with used crate amps, that don't sell anymore. Many people are dumping them for $25 just to avoid a total loss.
As far as our local famous guitar store, the owner dumped crate years ago, because he did not like input jacks with no hardware to hold them to the chassis. Just soldered, no mechanical attachment at all. Apparently crate thought this was a great idea. Well it wasn't so great after all of them broke and cracked the circuit tracks, which apparently was not "covered" by the warrantee.
In the meanwhile there are still fenders with 50 year old jacks and they still work fine. (because they were attached to the chassis with hardware) How could a designer NOT foresee that the unattached jacks would crumble?
AND the plastic jacks that broke had THREADS! What is this thread for? Is it really too much to ask, to put a NUT on that thread??? How much is that going to cost, like 5 cents per jack?
The makers of crate were willing to do this, to save 25 cents per amp. Thanks a lot!

[Steve Conner]

Well, looking at it the other way, feel free to experiment with it and don't be sad if you wreck it!

The amp is solid state, right? No tubes sticking out. I think you can close up the back of the cabinet, as long as you leave a little room around the chassis for air to circulate and keep it cool. That might mean using a second bit of wood to make a horizontal shelf, as well as a piece for the back.

I say "wood" but the cabinet is most likely particle board.

You can give an open backed amp a surprising bass boost by just putting it in the corner of a room.