new speaker/break in

[anthillrich]

I tried to search this, but I could not find what I was looking for.

So please forgive me if this topic has been beaten to death.

speaker break in ......bunk?

googled it and found opinions on both sides, both seemed logical.

like this

Speaker Break In: Fact or Fiction? — Reviews and News from Audioholics

not sure why that didnt appear as a link, but it basically says its bunk.

the last time I bought a speaker, I didnt know you were "supposed to" break them in, and I honestly did not notice any real or perceived change in the sound over time.

I recently purchased a new speaker and I was wondering if the sound will change as it gets worn in a little.
my past experience says probably not, but I wanted to know if you fine folks have had any personal experience with this.

the speaker by the way is an Eminence "Cannibis Rex" and I am loving it.

[tedmich]

I'd venture it VERY difficult for a typical human to perceive a minor change in a speakers output over any appreciable time span. Your best chance would be a careful recording of the same sound early and late and then reviewing them at the same time.

Some swear the various stiff speaker components require a break in before they give their "normalized" output, which sounds possible, although capacitor and even wire Mfg. also make these claims, which is MUCH less likely IMO.

Human psychoacoustic acclimation is a better explanation; we often need to become familiar with a sound before we can accept it.

[Steve Conner]

I think there is a change, but it takes several hours of wailing at full power to do it. If you have a 100W rated speaker hooked to a 5W amp, it might never happen.

[Chuck H]

Car stereo drivers aside... Break in is absolutely a reality for guitar speakers. Guitar speakers are generally made with paper cones in a thinner weight and tend to stress their surround more relative to it's elasticity.

I loved my Cannabis Rex UNTIL it broke in That took about 80 hours in a fully clipping 20W amp. Then it was too dull. I replaced it with a Vintage 30 that had the right sound but WAAAYY too much upper mids. Now it's perfect. but it took about 250 hours to break in the V30 in the same amp.

If you don't push the speaker you can't break it in. If you never play loud that would explain why you haven't noticed it. Just with use it still happens. But to a smaller extent and so slowly that you'd be apt to miss it.

[soundguruman]

You soak the cone in beer, allow to drip dry, that seasons it properly.

[J M Fahey]

Well,another proof that the preferred method seems to be to to soak yourself in beer, before posting here.

[Chuck H]

I thought it was funny. And not likely to be taken seriously.

I do think the beer must be "spilled" "accidentally" though for the mojo to work properly.

[anthillrich]

beer and hemp cones, a winning combination i'm sure.

i posed the original question for two reasons:

1). im not entirely sure breakin is a real phenomenon (but some well respected posters feel it is, and i do value their opinion).

2). i have a more practical reason.
i have this new eminence speaker in a 1x12 cab. i also have a 20+ year old celestion gt75 in another 1x12 cab.
i run these two in parallel, and they are very close in apparent "loudness" (this is a good thing for my purposes). i say apparent because i am using my ears and not a spL meter, but none the less they sound very close in volume (tone wise they are worlds apart).

on paper, there should be a noticable disparity in volume. the Eminence is rated @ 102 db, the celestion @ 96 db.
is this becuase the celestion is well worn and broken in ? will the Eminence get louder as it breaks in? or will it just change tone some?

they are both the same in terms of Z.
I DO PLAY LOUD, im using these in a band, so the speakers are getting a good work out.

thanks for the replies,
rich

[Chuck H]

The SPL speaker rating, as it applies to loudness, isn't a perfect marker. The "apparent loudness" and actual wattage efficiency of a speaker can be very different. The Eminence speakers, IMHO, tend to be heavy in low mids and roll off really high end. This is great for a band mix since it gives the guitar more guts. In a bedroom environment it sort of gets lost though since low mids are about as easy on the ears as it gets. Then there's the nuances of pairing amps and speakers. Suppose you have an amp that has pronounced upper mids, and you pair it with a speaker that has pronounced upper mids. The amp will seem very loud. But then in a band mix you find it sort of thin and one dimensional. In the same amp a speaker with weak upper mids, but a higher SPL, may not seem as loud because it's no longer 'upper mids all up your grille'. This is an extreme example. Variables tend to be more subtle but still significant.

Also, unless your listening to both speakers side by side, or each one in a mix with the same amp amp settings, it can be hard to tell.

AFAIK there is no increase in SPL with break in. If anything there may be a decrease in apparent loudness because some top end rolls off. Top end does a lot for apparent loudness.

Still, from 96dB to 102dB is a huge jump. I would have thought the difference would be obvious. So, back to my amp+speaker scenario... Celestion G12t75 - bright and gritty, Eminence Cannabis Rex - warm and smooth. I speculate that your amp is accentuating the strengths of the Celestion more than the Eminence.

Another Also... I don't know how efficiency is affected by drive but it could be that at the level you are driving the speakers they aren't as dissimilar as the rated specs.

[anthillrich]

thank you for your reply.
your explanation makes perfect sense. my amp does infact accentuate the strenghts of the celestion. its a Marshall, and it was meant to go with the celestion.
also your description of the speakers is spot on. the CREX has low mids , and yes, it gives my guitar more "guts". exactly as i had hoped.
I didnt plan on liking the combination of the gt75 & crex, but i must say i really do.
i planned on using the crex instead of the gt75, but hearing them paired up, i guess i'll be carrying two cabs to gigs again.
thanks again.

[J M Fahey]

Always substract *at least* 3 dB from all Eminence SPL ratings.
Their method of measurement is different from all others.
Their frequency response curves are much more accurate ... and in no way match "the number" ... but since itīs the only thing most people look at ....
Peavey has a technical paper explaining all this.
Their 97dB rated speakers (same as "classic" Celestions) match much higher rated Eminences, as you just tested "by ear".

[soundguruman]

You might try pre-soaking the technician with a hemp cone and beer...
BUT, nearly every amp used in a club / pub, has been christened in suds at some time. And that produces the proper timbre.
Some of my customers have taken to soaking the electronics as well as the speaker, but I would discourage that additional submersion.
(keep doing that, your making me think I'm going to be rich)

[soundguruman]

beer and hemp cones, a winning combination i'm sure.

i posed the original question for two reasons:

1). im not entirely sure breakin is a real phenomenon (but some well respected posters feel it is, and i do value their opinion).

2). i have a more practical reason.
i have this new eminence speaker in a 1x12 cab. i also have a 20+ year old celestion gt75 in another 1x12 cab.
i run these two in parallel, and they are very close in apparent "loudness" (this is a good thing for my purposes). i say apparent because i am using my ears and not a spL meter, but none the less they sound very close in volume (tone wise they are worlds apart).

on paper, there should be a noticable disparity in volume. the Eminence is rated @ 102 db, the celestion @ 96 db.
is this becuase the celestion is well worn and broken in ? will the Eminence get louder as it breaks in? or will it just change tone some?

they are both the same in terms of Z.
I DO PLAY LOUD, im using these in a band, so the speakers are getting a good work out.

thanks for the replies,
rich

Well the SPL is measured with the speaker mounted in an ideal cabinet. And probably measured at the ideal frequency.
And so the speaker will not be as loud unless the cabinet is "just so."
And that probably explains the difference between the published specs and the actual experience.
When connecting two dissimilar speakers in a random cabinet you are bound to get cancellations from frequencies that are out of phase between the two speakers.
We have that problem a lot in PA systems too.
And so it's no surprise that two mismatched speakers are going to produce the less than ideal results.

As far as break in, no, you are not going to get the speaker louder by breaking it in.
You will get an improvement from mounting the speaker in the ideal designed cabinet.

[Enzo]

Oh there are also various phenomena like "cone cry" that may work themselves out after breakin or may shiw up after break in.

Remember too that those efficiency ratings are like impedance. They are nominal values at very specific frequencies and conditions. 1 watt at 1 meter at 1kHz may show a particular difference, but when played through an amp, the music signal covers a wide range of frequencies. The tonal response of the individual speakers can be very different, regardless of that efficiency spec. SO the music can be a lot louder in one even when the 1kHz test signal might not be.

[anthillrich]

thanks for the info, much appreciated.
I hope that cone cry does not develop, I have heard this phenomenon before and I didnt like it.
FWIW I really couldnt care less about the specs, 102db, 96db etc. except that I was sure one speaker would over power the other, and I wouldnt be able to use them together.
That doesnt seem to be the case, so I am happy.
I also gather from the posts that speaker breakin IS a real thing, and as I said before, I value the opinions of the folks on this forum. I will listen for it.
oh, by the way, my amp, guitar, and pedal board have all been beer soaked at one time or another. Usaually not by my own doing. why not the speakers too.