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Help this neebie(me) in amps and guitar tech

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  • #16
    Here's my understanding (hope it helps):

    breaking the signal chain down into *simplified* functional blocks, there are mic-level sources (microphones), instrument-level sources (guitars), and line-level sources (keyboards or electronic drums). The function of these units are to make sound.
    Line-level sources have the next functional block built in, namely a pre-amplifier (preamp). This is *one* of the reasons that keyboards, etc, have to be plugged in to a power source. The function of the preamp is to raise a signal's level up to line level and to condition its impedance to match the expected impedance of the next functional block. That's all I'm a gonna say about impedance. A full discussion would (and has) filled many discussions and book chapters. The next block is the power amplifier, which boosts the signal to levels that can drive speakers. so

    source -> preamp -> power amp -> speakers -> audience

    Mixing boards may have the capability to accept mic, instrument, and line-level sources, in any combination. Some boards are NOT good at accepting instruments. From your posts, this seems to be the case at your church. So for your guitar, you need AT THE VERY LEAST a preamp to bridge the gap between instrument and mixing board. The DSP unit that you have selected will do very nicely for this. I mentioned before that keyboards are usually a combination of source (block) plus preamp (block). your guitar plus DSP does the same thing, just as you surmised. OK so far.
    Guitar ampilifers (tube or not, doesn't matter) are a combination of preamp (block) plus power amp (block). Some guitar amps have a line out (or preamp out) that allows the user to take the signal at the junction between the two blocks, and send it to the mixer, for example. You already have the preamp portion of that device, so what you NEED for you application at the church is some kind of power amp that you can set up as a personal monitor (I am assuming that you intend to feed the mixing board with the signal from your DSP). While you are getting used to the DSP that you bought, use anything that you can get your hands on for a monitor! There are clock radios that accept a line level input (think MP3 player). As I mentioned before, computer speakers work well too.

    Do you want the BEST guitar amp (power amp) to make you sound the best? Of course. We all want that. My advice is to not run out and buy something that's not necessary for this application; beg or borrow what will get you and your fellow guitar player through these learning stages, wait until you have some experience and know what you want before investing in a guitar amp.
    If it still won't get loud enough, it's probably broken. - Steve Conner
    If the thing works, stop fixing it. - Enzo
    We need more chaos in music, in art... I'm here to make it. - Justin Thomas
    MANY things in human experience can be easily differentiated, yet *impossible* to express as a measurement. - Juan Fahey

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    • #17
      The cool thing about the RP355 IMHO is that it has two sets of stereo outputs, 1/4 inch left/right & XLR left/right. Each set of outputs have a separate button to select amp/mixer. So you might want an amp close by for monitoring on stage and plug another separate output to a mixer too. So, lets assume that you use 1/4 mono left output set as amp going to (obviously) a stage amp. Then you could have XLR outputs set to the mixer setting thus feeding the PA system mixing console. That is a pretty powerful setup for a simple preamp front end device.

      Look at the rp355 manual at this link for a better understanding of what I described and ask questions if your at all confused. Oh look at pages 7-9 of the manual for a more detailed example of what I just wrote.
      http://www.digitech.com/system/docum...pdf?1294938226
      When the going gets weird... The weird turn pro!

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by eschertron View Post
        Here's my understanding (hope it helps):

        breaking the signal chain down into *simplified* functional blocks, there are mic-level sources (microphones), instrument-level sources (guitars), and line-level sources (keyboards or electronic drums). The function of these units are to make sound.
        Line-level sources have the next functional block built in, namely a pre-amplifier (preamp). This is *one* of the reasons that keyboards, etc, have to be plugged in to a power source. The function of the preamp is to raise a signal's level up to line level and to condition its impedance to match the expected impedance of the next functional block. That's all I'm a gonna say about impedance. A full discussion would (and has) filled many discussions and book chapters. The next block is the power amplifier, which boosts the signal to levels that can drive speakers. so

        source -> preamp -> power amp -> speakers -> audience

        Mixing boards may have the capability to accept mic, instrument, and line-level sources, in any combination. Some boards are NOT good at accepting instruments. From your posts, this seems to be the case at your church. So for your guitar, you need AT THE VERY LEAST a preamp to bridge the gap between instrument and mixing board. The DSP unit that you have selected will do very nicely for this. I mentioned before that keyboards are usually a combination of source (block) plus preamp (block). your guitar plus DSP does the same thing, just as you surmised. OK so far.
        Guitar ampilifers (tube or not, doesn't matter) are a combination of preamp (block) plus power amp (block). Some guitar amps have a line out (or preamp out) that allows the user to take the signal at the junction between the two blocks, and send it to the mixer, for example. You already have the preamp portion of that device, so what you NEED for you application at the church is some kind of power amp that you can set up as a personal monitor (I am assuming that you intend to feed the mixing board with the signal from your DSP). While you are getting used to the DSP that you bought, use anything that you can get your hands on for a monitor! There are clock radios that accept a line level input (think MP3 player). As I mentioned before, computer speakers work well too.

        Do you want the BEST guitar amp (power amp) to make you sound the best? Of course. We all want that. My advice is to not run out and buy something that's not necessary for this application; beg or borrow what will get you and your fellow guitar player through these learning stages, wait until you have some experience and know what you want before investing in a guitar amp.
        WOOOOOOOOW this is the amazing post which made me clearly understand the concept
        of all level instruments(mic-level sources (microphones), instrument-level sources (guitars), and line-level sources (keyboards or electronic drums)) , so since our guitar is instrument-level source , sure we must use preamp(like DSP or analog pedal ) to make it sound equal to line level instrument . Woow your English is so simple and understandable for me ( non - English speaker) .

        " source -> preamp -> power amp -> speakers -> audience " This map clearly explains me everything . Thanks a lot .

        We already have a monitor speaker (power amp) in our Church which takes output from mixer and gives to us . So only thing i need is Preamp which fills the gap , i don't think power amp is necessary for me , may be in future i will buy a tube amp for my personal practice use - at my home .




        Originally posted by DrGonz78 View Post
        The cool thing about the RP355 IMHO is that it has two sets of stereo outputs, 1/4 inch left/right & XLR left/right. Each set of outputs have a separate button to select amp/mixer. So you might want an amp close by for monitoring on stage and plug another separate output to a mixer too. So, lets assume that you use 1/4 mono left output set as amp going to (obviously) a stage amp. Then you could have XLR outputs set to the mixer setting thus feeding the PA system mixing console. That is a pretty powerful setup for a simple preamp front end device.

        Look at the rp355 manual at this link for a better understanding of what I described and ask questions if your at all confused. Oh look at pages 7-9 of the manual for a more detailed example of what I just wrote.
        http://www.digitech.com/system/docum...pdf?1294938226
        Thanks a lot for your wonderful reply DrGonz78 .



        Guys , Problem in buying DSP Digitech RP355 processor ,

        Since i stay in India , i don't think i can get a used DSP Digitech RP355 processor from amazon(Amazon.com: Buying Choices: DigiTech RP355 Modeling Guitar Processor and USB Recording Interface ) or from ebay USA (DigiTech RP355 Modeling Guitar Processor 691991201875 | eBay ) , Ebay.com(USA) won't ship to India , they ship only to Europe and to U.S , instead they have ebay.in(India) but there i could not find any used DSP Digitech RP355 processor and the new one cost 370 $ + shipping charges in ebay.in(DigiTech RP355 Modeling Guitar Processor | eBay ) . In my place ( where i live in India ) has a famous musical shop they sell this processor for the same price ,370 $ + No shipping charges , refer this URL(Buy Processors & Pedals Online | Digitech RP 355V-EU Processors & Pedals Price in India | Saptaswara Chennai, India)

        So Guys ,i am extremely sorry to say that I am not rich enough to buy a DSP for 370$ now , In future i will buy it BY GOD'S GRACE . so can any one suggest me a Good sounded Multi effects processor(distortion, chorus , wah , clean - these are the only tones i want ) for around 170 $ -200 $ ? what about zoom ? is Zoom Dsp technically sounds good ? is there any good model in zoom ? or in Boss ? or any other company ? or shall i go for analog pedal (single tone ) ? . Thanks in advance guys . I am extremely sorry if i am disturbing you all so much . I hope you all will suggest a good Dsp or analog pedal for me by replying to this post . So i hope this will my final post for this thread . GOD BLESS YOU ALL .

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        • #19
          I think a SansAmp run through a direct box will solve the OP's problem. Put a distortion box in front of it and get all the tone you need.
          Stop by my web page!

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          • #20
            Sure, that would sound great, the question is can he get a distortion pedal, a SansAmp and a DI box in India for under $200 total?
            "Enzo, I see that you replied parasitic oscillations. Is that a hypothesis? Or is that your amazing metal band I should check out?"

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Steve Conner View Post
              Sure, that would sound great, the question is can he get a distortion pedal, a SansAmp and a DI box in India for under $200 total?
              Aliexpress.com : Buy Free Shipping JOYO Guitar Effect Guitar Pedal True Bypass Design Crunch Distortion JF 03 from Reliable Guitar pedals suppliers on BATES MUSIC

              Aliexpress.com : Buy Wholesale cheap NEW JOYO JF 15/California sound (Amplifier Simulator), electric bass dynamic compression Guitar effects pedals from Reliable guitar pedals suppliers on BATES MUSIC

              Somebody must sell a DI box he can afford that wills ship to India. The Behringers are cheap.
              Stop by my web page!

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              • #22
                Originally posted by coolforyou View Post
                So Guys ,i am extremely sorry to say that I am not rich enough to buy a DSP for 370$ now , In future i will buy it BY GOD'S GRACE . so can any one suggest me a Good sounded Multi effects processor(distortion, chorus , wah , clean - these are the only tones i want ) for around 170 $ -200 $ ? what about zoom ? is Zoom Dsp technically sounds good ? is there any good model in zoom ? or in Boss ? or any other company ? or shall i go for analog pedal (single tone ) ? . Thanks in advance guys . I am extremely sorry if i am disturbing you all so much . I hope you all will suggest a good Dsp or analog pedal for me by replying to this post . So i hope this will my final post for this thread . GOD BLESS YOU ALL .
                Thank you for your kind words, my brother from India. I am glad I could help.
                While I do not have any experience with DSP foot pedals for guitar, I do have a ZOOM H4N portable music recorder, and am pleased with the quality. I've had it for several years now with no problems. It actually has some DSP effects built into it that I have played with, and while I haven't used them much, I thought that the sounds were decent. If the music store near you has products that you can try in the store, get an ear-full there to help you make your decision.
                If it still won't get loud enough, it's probably broken. - Steve Conner
                If the thing works, stop fixing it. - Enzo
                We need more chaos in music, in art... I'm here to make it. - Justin Thomas
                MANY things in human experience can be easily differentiated, yet *impossible* to express as a measurement. - Juan Fahey

                Comment


                • #23
                  I think they all sound just fine if you adjust them right. Just get the one that has the features you want. You and the other guitarist can each get a Zoom G1 N for less than half the price of one Digitech RP 355V
                  Vote like your future depends on it.

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                  • #24
                    Actually, if you've been just plugging your electric into the mixer you will LOVE the sounds you can get from the Zoom.
                    Vote like your future depends on it.

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