In which part of an amp build would you spend extra dough for high end parts?

[mort]

I tend to stay away from the very cheapest of parts, but have yet to spend the extra money on high end parts. Where in the amp do you think high end parts would make the most discernible difference in sound or build quality, if at all?




I tend to buy:

Weber or Hammond transformers
Sprague, Orange Drop, or similar caps
Older[but fairly inexpensive] used or NOS tubes
Alpha or CTS pots
Switchcraft jacks
etc.

[soundguruman]

NOS / used tubes are a waste of money. You are just buying somebody elses junk.
You don't have to buy Groove tubes either.
Just regular MOR, like JJ will be fine.

Regular Consumer grade pots are trash.
I would rather buy PEC Canada.
In my new build, I will not be throwing money away on Alpha or CTS pots.
I will buy good ones.

[leydenjar]

I love PEC pots.

Electrolytics and coupling caps are important.

I like Mercury trannies. Yes they're expensive when you have to pay full price. I don't. I like Hammond and Heyboer too.

I like resistors with readable color bands. You can't hear the color bands. Maybe.

I've learned that some people don't have a particularly discerning ear. Playing chords with close intervals and asking a listener what they think usually separates the good ears from the not so good ears.

Speakers. Sooooo important.

[wyatt]

I tend to buy:

Weber or Hammond transformers
Sprague, Orange Drop, or similar caps
Older[but fairly inexpensive] used or NOS tubes
Alpha or CTS pots
Switchcraft jacks
etc.

There certainly is nothing subpar about your part choices. I think weak links are more important to hi-end parts.

With transfromers I'm worried about 1) will it provide the voltages or ratio I need, 2) will it fit and 3) immediate warranty (I'm worried about how they handle defective or DOA, not necessarily a 5-year warranty)

Everyone seems to have their preference for parts base on a few things...1) Resistance or ease of the pot turning, 2) the percentages of the audio taper and 3) issues with dumping out at the extreme ends of the turn (this has been an issue with Weber pots and some Alphas). Many have one through Alpha, Bournes, CTS, Clarostat and PEC just to settle back on Alphas. I know I have never been happy with Bournes, which are qualty pots. That is very much the case with the guys over at the Metro Amps forum. I do like PEC but must admit the expensive, sealed milspec parts aren't serviceable and rarely outlast their lower-priced competition despite the higher cost and their aluminum backs can increase assembly time.

Ultimately, you can look at everything through the same eyes..."which parts work reliably and provide the results I like." Now if you are building to sell, you may find it easier to sell an amp with top-priced name-brand parts that the consumer is willing to pay more for. Typically the more expensive amp with more expensive parts will outsell the budget option thanks to the "Chivas Regal Theory".

[big_teee]

I tend to stay away from the very cheapest of parts, but have yet to spend the extra money on high end parts. Where in the amp do you think high end parts would make the most discernible difference in sound or build quality, if at all?




I tend to buy:

Weber or Hammond transformers
Sprague, Orange Drop, or similar caps
Older[but fairly inexpensive] used or NOS tubes
Alpha or CTS pots
Switchcraft jacks
etc.

You may want to look at the ClassicTone Transformers.
ClassicTone Transformers By Magnetic Components, Inc.
I like Sozo Caps, not that much more.
CTS Pots are fine for me.
I use New production tubes. JJs or Tungsol, etc.
Shop at TubeDepot for tubes, and resistors.
T

[Gingertube]

GOOD Hardware:
Tube Sockets - cheap ones will give you hemeroid symptoms for years to come. Buy good sockets and you will never need to change them. There is nothing worse than an amp blowing up because the negqative bias voltage did'nt reach the grid due to a crappy or just intermittent pin in the tube socket.
Input Jacks and
in particular speaker output jacks, remember ballpark figures like:
100W into 8 Ohms = 3+ Amps RMS Audio signal (so don't EVER use a guitar cord to connect your amp to the speaker) .
100W into 4 Ohms = 5 Amps RMS Audio Signal.

I use common garden variety polypropylene caps, metal film resistors, don't waste money on expensive caps and resitors (Actually I do have one weirdness, I will not use ceramic caps in anything intended to produce audio, their dielectric self absorbtion is just too high and the resulting distortion is objectionable to my ears).

If you have a dependable source then NOS tubes can be worth it. I use mostly 6V6G (the ST "Coke Bottle" shaped tubes) but they all go through my AVO MK3 Tube tester, for most of you, you will have to depend upon the honesty of your vendor or settle for the only slightly inferior modern production stuff.

Cheers,
Ian

[soundguruman]

GOOD Hardware:
Tube Sockets - cheap ones will give you hemeroid symptoms for years to come. Buy good sockets and you will never need to change them. There is nothing worse than an amp blowing up because the negqative bias voltage did'nt reach the grid due to a crappy or just intermittent pin in the tube socket.
Input Jacks and
in particular speaker output jacks, remember ballpark figures like:
100W into 8 Ohms = 3+ Amps RMS Audio signal (so don't EVER use a guitar cord to connect your amp to the speaker) .
100W into 4 Ohms = 5 Amps RMS Audio Signal.

I use common garden variety polypropylene caps, metal film resistors, don't waste money on expensive caps and resitors (Actually I do have one weirdness, I will not use ceramic caps in anything intended to produce audio, their dielectric self absorbtion is just too high and the resulting distortion is objectionable to my ears).

If you have a dependable source then NOS tubes can be worth it. I use mostly 6V6G (the ST "Coke Bottle" shaped tubes) but they all go through my AVO MK3 Tube tester, for most of you, you will have to depend upon the honesty of your vendor or settle for the only slightly inferior modern production stuff.

Cheers,
Ian

Used / NOS tubes:
A tube tester may indicate if a tube is "functional."
But it never tells you about noise, hum, microphonics, loose internal construction, undesirable distortion, etc...all the things you DON'T want in a guitar amp.
That's why I never use them...(NOS / used tubes)
Just because it tests "good" does not mean it will work right / sound right in a guitar amp. OR that it will KEEP working over a long period.

And just because it "tests" good, does not mean that it is suitable to sell to an end user for a guitar amp.

The way I am looking at it, I would rather spend $8 on a new tube, which has a better chance of surviving long term usage. And we have had good results with JJ, which has been very consistent, and very rare defects...

So, keep in mind that "testing" tubes (tube tester) does not tell you everything you want to know. I think it tells you about 30% of what you SHOULD know.
The other 70% is determined while running it, in the actual amplifier, with actual MUSIC playing through it.

[kleuck]

1 Speaker 2 Transformers 3 Caps 4 Tubes (Nos for the preamp at least)

[R.G.]

It's worth pondering - what makes a part "high end"?

[mort]

It's worth pondering - what makes a part "high end"?

I have no friggin clue, besides price and how pretty it might look.

[big_teee]

High End, Usually Means Big $$$ Bucks.

[R.G.]

Leaving aside high end being defined as "pretty; and expensive, with lots of technobabble advertising", engineers and accountants have the same concept about some things. (Note... "some" )

Engineers often express this as the 80-20 rule: 80% of the possible results are obtained with 20% of the effort (in this case money is the "effort"), while obtaining the next 10% of the possible results takes the other 80% of the money ( ) and the final 10% of the result is often not obtainable in this universe.

Accountants refer to the concept as the marginal rate of return in many cases. Once you've obtained some good or service (in this case, a functional part for the amp) what does the next increment of performance cost you? And then the one after that?

If there is some limit to how good a thing can be made or how much performance can be obtained, the marginal rate of return often plummets, in that each new % of performance costs a lot more than the one before that.

It's also known as the law of diminishing returns.

Again, this is after the high end parts that are pretty, expensive, and sold with lots of technobabble advertising" are removed from consideration. "Pretty" often costs dramatically more than functional, and is often orthogonal to, or in opposition to actual function.

As an example of marginal utilty, it's possible to make conductors out of solid gold. However, gold is 24% LESS conductive than copper, and not nearly as mechanically stable. Gold's screaming advantage is that it doesn't corrode. So conductors made of gold are arguably worse at the job than copper. Silver is the best conductor in the metals, but is only 9% more conductive than copper. So the best conductor for most electronic uses is copper, as it's cheaper per unit than either gold or silver (and platinum is down there at 84% worse than copper), and offers more conductivity per dollar/ruble/dinar/yuan/yen/yada/yada than the other metals. Aluminum is only a 10% poorer conductor than copper, and is much cheaper, but is really hard to make good connections to because it oxidizes so readily.

I have read sendups for tweeko parts that extoll how gold is the best conductor. This tells me that the writer is either unaware of the facts, or is consciously lying.

[Mark Hammer]

And just to extend the argument a little further, the relative conductivity of gold, silver, copper and aluminum is established with all other parameters being equal. I would imagine that a thicker gauge of copper wire would accomplish, very nicely, what use of more expensive materials might be intended to accomplish in the original gauge, at substantially less increment to cost. In other words, sometimes a little bit of over-design with less costly materials can be a good thing. Sometimes.

[Bruce / Mission Amps]

1 Speaker 2 Transformers 3 Caps 4 Tubes (Nos for the preamp at least)

Except for switching #3 and #4 around... short and sweet.
I think this was your best answer so far... God love them all but in my opinion, most of the rest of the replies were .... well, you know.

[kleuck]

Except for switching #3 and #4 around... short and sweet.
I think this was your best answer so far... God love them all but in my opinion, most of the rest of the replies were .... well, you know.

Haha ! For the 3/4 points, i would actually put them on the same level, but you're right because caps are cheap, where NOS tubes...

My reply was more to the question "What can influence the overall sound of the amp, and therefore deserve more money if possible/needed ?"
Anyway good speakers are not necessarily expensive (if you love the Blue, bad luck) nor are the PT/OT (at least when you live in the US) and the 80/20 rule is absolutely true, there's always a point beyond which fine tuning the circuit is way more sensible than buying a costly OT etc...
I love NOS MAZDA 6V6, but the marginal gain of "quality" to my ears is not worth their usual price.