Tube amp insight

[duke]

Hey guys. I'm in the market for a new tube amp and needed some insight before I made the purchase.
I play a deluxe stratocaster with EMG's. I'm thinking about changing the pickups too, but that's a different post.
I play blues, rock and jazz and currently own a Bugera V22. It's a great practice amp but just can't cut it live.
So far, I've looked at Fuchs,Morgan and Two Rock. Based on the demo's online, they all sound great.
I'm looking for a head and cabinet instead of a combo. I would like to stay under the $2000 price point.
And advice would be much appreciated.

[flyingdutchman]

Based on the demo's online, they all sound great.

The way an amp sounds on a yootoob-clip really doesn't say all that much. Posting clips online is currently all the rage, but most of the finer nuances of the sound, especially dynamics and "twang", get lost by the wayside: the quality of audio streams tends to range from absolutely dreadful to ho-hum mid-fi at best.

I still remember how amazed I was, a loooong time ago, when I first heard an electric guitar played live (not miked). I had been listening to recorded music for years - on vinyl records, through pretty decent kit, but until that experience I really didn't have the faintest idea what an electric guitar really sounded like.

The best advice I can give you is to take your guitar along on a visit to a well-furnished shop.

[duke]

The way an amp sounds on a yootoob-clip really doesn't say all that much. Posting clips online is currently all the rage, but most of the finer nuances of the sound, especially dynamics and "twang", get lost by the wayside: the quality of audio streams tends to range from absolutely dreadful to ho-hum mid-fi at best.

I still remember how amazed I was, a loooong time ago, when I first heard an electric guitar played live (not miked). I had been listening to recorded music for years - on vinyl records, through pretty decent kit, but until that experience I really didn't have the faintest idea what an electric guitar really sounded like.

The best advice I can give you is to take your guitar along on a visit to a well-furnished shop.

Cool. I've been able to play through a few Fender amps where I live, but unfortunately we don't have any high end shops here.
Guitar Center is the main store.

[flyingdutchman]

Cool. I've been able to play through a few Fender amps

Actually, Fender does make pretty decent amps. I work with a few sound hire crews and the Hot Rod Deluxe / DeVille are the usual amps they bring along for the backline. The musicians don't complain. For the type of stuff you play they're versatile and dependable amps.

Guitar Center is the main store.

Don't know much about them, but hopefully they'll have a salesperson who knows what he's on about and the possibility to let you play through a few amps.

[Chuck H]

The amps you mentioned are all fine amps. Really fine. And expensive. The Fender HR models are probably the common amp in club use today in the genres you mentioned. They sound great, are reasonably reliable and you won't cry like a girl when someone spills beer on it or at worst, gets stolen. My bottom line is that you shouldn't buy an un-heard amp based on it's reputation. Especially if you're going to spend extra money on it. You should absolutely play through whatever you choose to buy. Find some amps that you like and then research their reputation for customer support and reliability.

[olddawg]

You might be surprised if you re-tubed the Bugera with some decent tubes, put a better speaker in it, and /or used a quality extension speaker. 22 watts is usually fine for most clubs, especially if there is a mic on it. I played the HOB the other night using a 5 watt Epiphone VJ head through a 2 x12 cab. We were all miked and having a survivable stage volume is nice. Also sound guys love not having to tell you to turn down.

[stokes]

The way an amp sounds on a yootoob-clip really doesn't say all that much. Posting clips online is currently all the rage, but most of the finer nuances of the sound, especially dynamics and "twang", get lost by the wayside: the quality of audio streams tends to range from absolutely dreadful to ho-hum mid-fi at best.

I still remember how amazed I was, a loooong time ago, when I first heard an electric guitar played live (not miked). I had been listening to recorded music for years - on vinyl records, through pretty decent kit, but until that experience I really didn't have the faintest idea what an electric guitar really sounded like.

The best advice I can give you is to take your guitar along on a visit to a well-furnished shop.

Not to mention the fact that ya listening thru low grade computer speakers.I'm with olddawg on the 22watt thing being enough for club sized gigs.The right tubes biased just right goes a long way in low/mid powered amps for the music you say you do.

[Chuck H]

My personal amp is a prototype design that I built to make inroads with a client about five years ago. I liked it so much I adopted it as my main amp. It's a pair of small bottles at 355Vp and puts out about fifteen clean watts. I have an old Celestion V30 in it that was rated at 101dB (new rating is 100dB) and I would have no concerns using it at a gig. I can't say enough about the use of reasonably efficient speakers. Plenty of volume for a small club and a bigger club would require a mic on the cab anyway. Gone are the days of musicians needing to match individual instrument amps to the venue. It's mostly done with the PA now. A bigger concern would be an amp that's too large and would be too loud at the tone you want for most clubs. A speaker driven line out is a great way to bump volume with a PA. It represents the amps tone and it's a really easy circuit.

[g1]

A speaker driven line out is a great way to bump volume with a PA. It represents the amps tone and it's a really easy circuit.

Care to post your favourite version? And you mean transformer driven rather than speaker driven, right?

[loudthud]

I recently picked up a 2005 Marshall MC412B cabinet. It's made of MDF, has no covering on the back panel and G12E-50 speakers. The E must stand for Extra Cheap or Extra Small magnets. Compared to my 80's 4x12B with G12-65's, it is way down in sensitivity, guessing about 6dB. Tone is not bad, but it just doesn't have the slam of the older cabinet driven by 50W.

[Chuck H]

No tranny. Just a simple divider. You can use a cap in series to roll off lows and a cap parallel to the dropper to roll off highs if you want to complicate it but I never do. I usually use a 500R pot for the dropper and adjust the series resistor value according to the amp to achieve about 1.5VAC signal at full tilt. That way the circuit can be adjusted to give a line level signal when playing low and clean. I've always been happy enough with it that I wonder why anyone would use the transformer method for anything but a balanced output, which almost never comes up for guitar amps.

[bob p]

^ I've done the simple divider thing, sending the output to a slave amp.

If you look at commercial amps that do these things, those that take the send signal off prior to the power tubes always have some EQ built into the circuit, compared to the method of just putting a divider on the output. IME some EQ ability helps a lot.

[olddawg]

I have never cared for a voltage divider line out. It doesn't have the same frequency response curve or coloration as the speaker and does not have speaker distortion. If you can use a DI you can mic it for better results. My favorite... Plain old Shure SM 57.

[Chuck H]

Well the board usually has some individual channel EQ control. And the amp is still in the mix. The PA is just a little boost. Most EQ's accept a line signal so you could add one in line if you wanted too. A mic is always best for sure. Sometimes it's complicated by feedback or space on a small stage, the mic cable shorts (and they all short eventually when you need them) or you want the convenience of just plugging it in. Another neat thing the speaker driven line out can do is run effects to another amp. Now, if you have a little practice amp with reverb you can add reverb to your Champ or Bassman clone and it'll be clear, not garbled from the power tube clipping. It's just a good accessory IMHO and I include them on my builds.

[g1]

Chuck, when I said transformer driven I meant the OT. You say "speaker driven" but I know you mean OT driven. The only thing a speaker will drive is a mic . Sorry for being a smart arse, thanks for your line out specs.