Whom would I got to to make something totally new?

[neshel]

I'm not sure what you mean by "tone doubling"- but my interpretation is that you want to modify the guitar's timbre by selectively emphasizing certain overtones and not others (or by generating certain harmonics of the fundamental pitch).
Am I close?

Yes. I think so.

I think sustain would then be a separate issue. Compressor? Positive feedback? e-bow?

In reverse order: no; I don't know; I don't think so. There's something that happens in the compression of the signal through (particularly) a tube circuit that retains a certain kind of dynamic (not true decibel dynamics but) that doesn't happen with merely compressing the signal pre-amp, and post-amp it is worse.

Would the tone modification you seek have to be built into the amp?

Perhaps not, but then that's really just a device that goes into a 'clean' power amp, right?

[Alan0354]

[QUOTE=Jazz P Bass;352710]

You really need someone that is an engineer AND a good gigging player AND the passion in designing amps. QUOTE]

Ahh.
You have described our beloved (and MIA) SGM to a T.

Maybe that's the reason he is MIA, he might be cooking up something and not willing to share anymore!!!!

[rjb]

Perhaps not, but then that's really just a device that goes into a 'clean' power amp, right?

Yes. Or, perhaps, directly into the house soundboard. So?

[J M Fahey]

You really need someone that is an engineer AND a good gigging player AND the passion in designing amps.

FWIW NOT ONE of the great iconic amp creators matches that description.
Some examples:
* Leo Fender was a middle of the road Radio repair guy, not only couldn't play but couldn´t even tune a guitar, and coworkers complained about what a torture was to hear him strumming random strings at full power to test amps in the next room.
* Jim Marshall was a Jazz drummer, no clue about Tech matters and could design nothing.
* Hartley Peavey is a self taught Tech (nothing bad with that, of course), *maybe* he plays some guitar, why not? but not a gigging musician in the least.
And so on ....

What they all share , though, is being incredible and very focused Businnessmen .

[Leo_Gnardo]

I like the tone doubling and sustain of high gain in the ways it particularly does. I don't like the gristle. The grit. And filters can't finely enough remove it. It has to not be produced. A clipping that only produces what is wanted.

Is that more sensical?

Depends what organ. I hear plenty of 'gristle & sinew' in recordings of rock & jazz organists usually using Hammond B3 & similar. I think you're more looking for a guitar synthesizer or sampler driver with which you can select overtones. It would pay to study Fourier series and "how to build your own waveforms" that way. If you can find a device that analyzes your guitar notes, and lets you pick the overtones you want in a way similar to using Hammond drawbars, that seems to be what you're lookng at. And no reason you can't "keep it clean", no unwanted distortion. As you put it "A clipping that only produces what is wanted." FWIW I have encountered guitarists who use their Roland hex pickups to drive samplers, and Hammond sounds on those samplers allow them to get an organ sound while playing the guitar.

You started a heck of a discussion. Hope you can find what you're looking for.

[neshel]

Yes. Or, perhaps, directly into the house soundboard. So?

Pardon. I meant then the power amp would be negligible. I have no issue with that.

Depends what organ. I hear plenty of 'gristle & sinew' in recordings of rock & jazz organists usually using Hammond B3 & similar. I think you're more looking for a guitar synthesizer or sampler driver with which you can select overtones. It would pay to study Fourier series and "how to build your own waveforms" that way. If you can find a device that analyzes your guitar notes, and lets you pick the overtones you want in a way similar to using Hammond drawbars, that seems to be what you're lookng at. And no reason you can't "keep it clean", no unwanted distortion. As you put it "A clipping that only produces what is wanted." FWIW I have encountered guitarists who use their Roland hex pickups to drive samplers, and Hammond sounds on those samplers allow them to get an organ sound while playing the guitar.

You started a heck of a discussion. Hope you can find what you're looking for.

Aye. I've a knack for that.

The organ analogy was only that, and barely so. Also, I meant pipe organ. All other organs I don't like. Even pipe organs can sound too shrill, depending.

Since the mid 90s I've wanted a device that transformed the guitar timbre in real time into whatever I wanted - and polyphonically. My experience and listening have shown me the limitation of articulation with triggered sounds.

[Alan0354]

FWIW NOT ONE of the great iconic amp creators matches that description.
Some examples:
* Leo Fender was a middle of the road Radio repair guy, not only couldn't play but couldn´t even tune a guitar, and coworkers complained about what a torture was to hear him strumming random strings at full power to test amps in the next room.
* Jim Marshall was a Jazz drummer, no clue about Tech matters and could design nothing.
* Hartley Peavey is a self taught Tech (nothing bad with that, of course), *maybe* he plays some guitar, why not? but not a gigging musician in the least.
And so on ....

What they all share , though, is being incredible and very focused Businnessmen .

Those are originals, now you need more to create something new.

[J M Fahey]

Those are originals, now you need more to create something new.

OK, I´ll follow your advice, searching for somebody matching your suggested profile.

Let´s see .... let´s see .... hey !!! look what I found!!!!:

dustin simone
DESIGNER- ARTIST- ENGINEER

Wow!!, just what the Doctor ordered !!!

And he is a master of CAD .... runs CNC machines ...... published a step by step construction project .... I bet NASA is peanuts compared to the ADVANCED stuff he´ll show us !!!!!

Ok, here it is, in all his glory, what he made:

Gibson GA-5 Amp Build part 1 | dustin simone

don´t forget the follow ups:
Gibson GA-5 Amp Build Part 2- The Chassis and Circuit Board | dustin simone
Gibson GA-5 Amp Finale | dustin simone
Gibson GA-5 Logo Plate | dustin simone

Yup, no doubt a DESIGNER- ARTIST- ENGINEER
guy is exactly what´s needed to advance the Science of Tube Amp Design.

No one else can.
Tell that to Howard Dumble, Ken Fischer, Bruce Egnater, Paul Rivera, etc.
Maybe they´ll notice they chose the wrong career after all

[Alan0354]

OK, I´ll follow your advice, searching for somebody matching your suggested profile.

Let´s see .... let´s see .... hey !!! look what I found!!!!:

dustin simone
DESIGNER- ARTIST- ENGINEER

Wow!!, just what the Doctor ordered !!!

And he is a master of CAD .... runs CNC machines ...... published a step by step construction project .... I bet NASA is peanuts compared to the ADVANCED stuff he´ll show us !!!!!

Ok, here it is, in all his glory, what he made:

Gibson GA-5 Amp Build part 1 | dustin simone

don´t forget the follow ups:
Gibson GA-5 Amp Build Part 2- The Chassis and Circuit Board | dustin simone
Gibson GA-5 Amp Finale | dustin simone
Gibson GA-5 Logo Plate | dustin simone

Yup, no doubt a DESIGNER- ARTIST- ENGINEER
guy is exactly what´s needed to advance the Science of Tube Amp Design.

No one else can.
Tell that to Howard Dumble, Ken Fischer, Bruce Egnater, Paul Rivera, etc.
Maybe they´ll notice they chose the wrong career after all

You are right, my bad.

[Alan0354]

OK, I´ll follow your advice, searching for somebody matching your suggested profile.

Let´s see .... let´s see .... hey !!! look what I found!!!!:

dustin simone
DESIGNER- ARTIST- ENGINEER

Wow!!, just what the Doctor ordered !!!

And he is a master of CAD .... runs CNC machines ...... published a step by step construction project .... I bet NASA is peanuts compared to the ADVANCED stuff he´ll show us !!!!!

Ok, here it is, in all his glory, what he made:

Gibson GA-5 Amp Build part 1 | dustin simone

don´t forget the follow ups:
Gibson GA-5 Amp Build Part 2- The Chassis and Circuit Board | dustin simone
Gibson GA-5 Amp Finale | dustin simone
Gibson GA-5 Logo Plate | dustin simone

Yup, no doubt a DESIGNER- ARTIST- ENGINEER
guy is exactly what´s needed to advance the Science of Tube Amp Design.

No one else can.
Tell that to Howard Dumble, Ken Fischer, Bruce Egnater, Paul Rivera, etc.
Maybe they´ll notice they chose the wrong career after all

You are right, my bad.

[neshel]

Dumble's dead, yo.

[jazbo8]

Dumble's dead, yo.

[Tom Phillips]

Dumble's dead, yo.

He will be amused to know that.

[neshel]

He will be amused to know that.

Oh. Thought I read that he was. Well, good then. I could solicit him....though I don't know as it would be in his realm of interest.

[jazbo8]

He builds guns now, that's why his amps are worth $$$.