Speaker suggestions for modding/making new amps

[JWK]

I've always had too many guitars and not enough amps. Since the internet, I've managed to get WAY too many guitars, too many amp heads and not enough speakers. I'm getting more of a balance now. I'm selling some guitars, selling some amps and I'm getting back into messing around with tube amps again. I've got an '69 SF Bassman I want to fix up (no major mods, just the usual replacement stuff and grounded power cord) and a few circuits of my own I want to try out on some transformers and chassis that I have.

Right now the only working speaker I have is a '96 Celestion V30 in a single Mesa cab that measures about 18.5" x 17" x 14". The speaker is broken in nicely. I've blasted all sorts of stuff through this thing. A Soldano HR50, THD Flexi, Freyette Sig:X, the list goes on. I have lived rurally for a long time so this speaker has had all of these amps opened up. However, the cab has always sounded "boxy" to me. Maybe it's the press board it's made from, maybe it's just too small for the speaker. I don't know if I don't like the speaker or just the cab it's in.

Now that I'm messing with my amps again and have time, I want to get the speaker(s) that will serve my purpose. My thought was to make some inexpensive cabinets out of $30 plywood sheets from Lowes or Home Depot. Have one or two of them being closed back and the same with open back. Then I thought I might be getting a bit ahead of myself, not realizing a basic question: What should come first, the speaker or the amp? For the sake of *some* simplicity, all will be single 12" in its own cab. I realize (or think) that some speakers really shine paired up or in quads, but I will be using mostly single 12" speakers anyway, so please give input about speakers you think are really good in a 1x12.

So I'm asking for opinions and suggestions. A couple of approaches seem obvious.

1. Get a EVM 12L and use it for all amp testing. When the amp is the way I like it, then find a speaker that might fit it better. The idea being proposed by some that the speaker is so neutral and uncolored that it will be good with any good amp and a "better" speaker will only be icing on the cake. Sort of like finding the "best" pickups for a good guitar, I guess.

2. Choose three different speakers with a 30 - 60 watt rating in the three "standard" types - British, American and neutral (12L, SRO, JBL). Except for my Sig:X, all my amps are 40 watts or less. Even my Sig:X is usually set to 40 watts with the 5U4 tube. The testing will be done clean to just breaking up. A 30 watt speaker could be paired up with another cab turned away just to be safe if I'm pushing it at all.

I'm really inexperienced with the way speakers are paired up with amps and how that all works. I've had 4x12, 2x12 and 1x12, but all at different times and I never had more than one cab at any time. No, I've never owned a combo amp. I really don't know whether people just find the type of speaker they like and use that for everything, or if certain speakers really only match up with certain amps. I know an awful lot of people like a british type of speaker in Fender amps. OTOH, not many people choose a Jensen C12N for say, a Dumble type of amp. FWIW, I will not be making or getting any kind of Dumble type of amp in the forseeable future, nor any kind of high gain amp. I like things played really clean up to a bit of crunch. I love cleans and just going into the crunch the most; where it becomes really harmonically complex. Total gain of preamp and PI would be on the level of the old standard amps (AC30, 59 Bassman, etc.) or less. Other than that, I'm not trying to copy any of those. I'll just be looking for sounds and responses that I like.

Given all that, what would be your thoughts, suggestions, opinions on how I should set myself up with speaker(s)?

[tedmich]

I am indeed an outlier but I like a dedicated B4 bass reflex alignment on a truthful (non guitar specific) speaker that's relatively flat from 60Hz to about 5kHz. Guitar speakers are incredibly "untrue" and impart far too much of their own shortcomings on the amp & guitar IMHO. I'd much rather have just two variables (guitar and amp (with its half dozen sub variables) than three with the speaker flavor and cab included. There are literally thousands of combinations for cabs, speakers, mikes and recording methods for the end of the signal change, giving rise to a large variety of cab/speaker modelers that the "want to play live exactly like it sounds on the CD" crowd favors.

If you are wedded to the "three amigos" approach (guitar/amp/speaker) its pretty straightforward to build a dozen of the usual suspect speakers into convertible open/closed back cabs and spend large amounts of time trying various combinations. I find such an approach distracts me from my actual playing and its content, as opposed to its form, but MANY love this quest and have (seemingly) unlimited space, finances and patience.

I'd also add some odd ball choices to your cab army: including maybe a Mesa Thiele and some Eminence speakers like the Tonker, Manowar and Swamp Thang.

[Alex R]

I use Eminence Deltalites as test speakers in the workshop. They sound good for guitar, pretty uncoloured I feel so I can hear just what the amp's doing. 350 watts and nice and light. They do what EVs do I reckon.

[J M Fahey]

Those Eminence and EV are *excellent* speakers, but maybe 1% of Musicians use them, so not really representative if you are testing amps which will later be paired with other cabs.

What you need is a "guitar" guitar speaker.

The V30 is also very good but it's known for having its own brash, bold sound.

And your cabinet is on the smaller side of things.

Personally I'd choose a 50 or 75W Eminence *Legend* speaker, as average as you can find, used as house brand speaker by many important Factories (think Fender/Peavey/Crate/even some Marshall), and mount it in a somewhat larger cabinet, think Twin Reverb sized, with a 3/4 closed back, which is about the mid point between closed and open back.

As generic as can be, very versatile.

Whatever they use at home, won't be very far from it.

[Dave H]

Right now the only working speaker I have is a '96 Celestion V30 in a single Mesa cab that measures about 18.5" x 17" x 14".

Is the Mesa cab open or closed back? I have an old V30 in a 18" x 18" x 12" MDF cab with the back about half open and it's not 'boxy'. It sounds fine to me.

[JWK]

Thanks for the suggestions, everyone. I'm thinking of starting with J.Fahey's, and possibly add a 12L type speaker in another cab. That would be an interesting comparison and keep me busy for awhile.

Dave H: It is a closed back cab, which is why it sounds so boxy. I've always thought it needed a bigger box and now that I'm doing this, I might as well see what it sounds like in something bigger. I do want to keep it closed back, though.

[J M Fahey]

Closed back cabs always have a peak at the speaker resonance frequency, doubly so if driven by a low damping Tube amp, or a mixed feedback SS one (very popular in Guitar amp designs).

If the cabinet is large, the peak will be at a lower frequency and be heard as a deep, thumping sound; but if the cabinet is smaller, peak frequency will rise into low mids and be perceived as "boxy" .

[JWK]

I haven't looked at T&S calculations in over 20 years. I have been under the impression that open backed cabs give the peak as resonance frequency and closed back cabs raise that frequency, depending on the size. So much to relearn...

[J M Fahey]

I haven't looked at T&S calculations in over 20 years.

Not much use in Guitar cabinets because the goal is not the same.
T&S very respectable goal is to go as far down as possible in as flat as possible way, excellent for Hi Fi or PA use, and in general (not always), for Bass.
But in Guitars we often like that bass peak which to boot is enhanced by low damping amps.

Only place where it's needed, in my opinion, is in *very* small combos (think ZT Lunchbox or the G&K 250) where speakers in such tiny cabinets would only go down to 200Hz; so carefully tuning the box to get flat down to 140/150 Hz makes for a big difference.

But going flat to 80Hz instead of a large bump at 110/120 Hz is, paradoxically, perceived as weak or very flat, uninteresting bass.

FWIW when EV (EVM15L) speakers were made available in Argentina because Sonolink started assembling them here with EV parts kits (it was a way to avoid import Tax) everybody and his brother bought one or two, for *any* instrument: Bass, Guitar or PA/Keyboards and built or ordered a properly tuned cabinet (TL something) , designed following TS rules by the book.

After a short honeymoon everybody started asking others: "is it me or you also notice I lost Bass, big way?" .

Sound was punchy, slappy, but lost round fat bass for good.

Sooner or later most everybody ditched the EV designed cabinet (which were quite compact by the way), and mounted their EV speakers in a much larger (usually 2X as much) cabinet; some tuned, some closed back.

Instant happyness.

I have been under the impression that open backed cabs give the peak as resonance frequency and closed back cabs raise that frequency, depending on the size. So much to relearn...

So far, that is correct.

The only difference is that (usually) the open back one lets the speaker resonate at the free air frequency (duh !!) but in general it has been falling from one octave ( or more) above.
As in, say, having a 6dB peak at 80/100Hz but has already been dropping below, say, 150 Hz (think Twin Reverb), while a closed back one will have a peak at, say, 100/120 Hz but be flat down to that point.

So both sound quite different.

And a T&S tuned cabinet, same speakers and amp, will usually be smaller , flat down to cabinet+speaker combined resonance and drop below that ... no peak of course.

So it will still offer a third, different sound.

[olddawg]

If you are trying to go cheap, MCM has generic 12" paper cone/surround instrument speakers for as little as $18 each. Lots of rental places and people selling useed equipment use them. It's all subjective. If you have a powered subwoofer and the "15 speaker craps out you can find one for $38. They work. It's all subjective. Some people rave about them. Some people say they suck. Some are better than others. I guess it's like the difference between a $4 bottle of wine and a $200 bottle of wine. They both work. If you are on a budget, it's certainly better than nothing at all. If you are a starving musician it will get you through gigs. And they ship quickly to your door. They also have a lot of inexpensive cabinet hardware.

[Jazz P Bass]

MCM does have some pretty decent speakers.

I grabbed the cast frame 15" for a repair.
Rated at 500 watts.
25 lbs of thumpin'.

The stamped 15 is a good buy for powered speakers.
Rated at 400 watts.

[loudthud]

Playing around with TS equasions I've found that speakers with a high Qts always have the low mids bump. The smaller the box the bigger the bump. It doesn't seem to matter much of the box is ported or not. Some of the low cost guitar speakers have a Qts greater than one. Yikes! I think the EV speakers have a Qts in the .35 to .45 range.

[Drewline]

I've recently got a JBL K120 that was given to me reconed. I had it reconed to 8 ohms with a paper dust cover to make it less bright. I put it in my test cabinet & it is to my ears the best test speaker I've ever used. The clarity is unreal.

[Silvertone Jockey]

If you are trying to go cheap, MCM has generic 12" paper cone/surround instrument speakers for as little as $18 each. Lots of rental places and people selling useed equipment use them. It's all subjective. If you have a powered subwoofer and the "15 speaker craps out you can find one for $38. They work. It's all subjective. Some people rave about them. Some people say they suck. Some are better than others. I guess it's like the difference between a $4 bottle of wine and a $200 bottle of wine. They both work. If you are on a budget, it's certainly better than nothing at all. If you are a starving musician it will get you through gigs. And they ship quickly to your door. They also have a lot of inexpensive cabinet hardware.

Thanks for posting the MCM info! an 800 watt 21" speaker (21 inches!) for $130 me likie!

MCM Audio Select 21'' Die Cast Professional Woofer - 800W RMS | 55-2985 (552985) | MCM Audio Select

[olddawg]

MCM has frequent sales and discounts once you buy something or get on their email marketing chain. It's not unusual to get 20-40% off on speakers at different times of the year.