Low Power Electric Guitar Amps

[Still Got The Blues]

Hi fellas,

I am a pre-intermediate guitar player. I have got Fender Standart Telecaster (had got Cort X-6 for years) and Roland Cube 15-X amph. I play my guitar only in my bedroom for fun. I am almost 30 years old, so I don't have any carreer plan related to guitar.

Anyway... I have started to think buy a tube amp after i had bought Tele. But I am not the high volume guy, so I wanted to buy a low watt amp. I want max. sound quality with low power. I think 1-5 watts amps work fine for my ears for my room use.

I searched my options on web and have found various models. But I can't decide it with my own abilities. I nerd you guys' help. And this topic may help to other people too if there are like me.

Here is the list of my targets:

-Vox AC4-HW1
-Vox AC4C1BL
-Marshall SL-5 Slash Signature
-Bugera V5
-Blackstar HT-1
-Fender Blues Junior
-VHT Special 6 Ultra
-Sundown ST-5

What are your suggestions?
One of them? Or else? Why?
Should I keep with my old amp? Does a tube amp make a sensible difference?

Thank you for help...

[Leo_Gnardo]

Well of course it's always best to audition anything you can get your hands on. After all who knows what's best for you, but you?

One amp that belongs on the list of candidates is Fender Champ / Vibrochamp.

I'm also intrigued that there's an amp out under the Sundown name. I thought the sun had long ago set on that line. Wonder who's really making it too. Seems to have standard features one would expect on a minimalist amp.

The Fender Blues Junior is a bit above the rest power wise. OTOH it's a pretty darn good amp, versatile, easy to maintain & do minor mods. Quiet enough for the bedroom guitarist but also loud enough for club gigs. If you can go the extra cost, or find a good gently used one for an attractive price I'd give it my approval.

And it never hurts to keep your old Roland around as a backup.

[Justin Thomas]

There's a certain quality to a push-pull amp, IOW, one with two power tubes. I have no issue with single-ended amps, but they really are a different beast altogether. The Blues Junior (and even Pro Junior) are going to be pretty loud, even at "low volume."

That said, I'll second the Champ, especially with a nice speaker installed.

Here's the thing, without too much math - a 1W amp is only half as loud as a 10W amp... there are tube amps in the 1-2W range, that use both sides of a "preamp" tube as the power amp - so even though it technically only has one "power tube," if it's a 12--7 or something like that, there are two sections inside, and so they are still push-pull. Sorry, I can't name them. Search those out, also - but you will probably have to be very patient in finding them!

Justin

[olddawg]

There's a certain quality to a push-pull amp, IOW, one with two power tubes. I have no issue with single-ended amps, but they really are a different beast altogether. The Blues Junior (and even Pro Junior) are going to be pretty loud, even at "low volume."

That said, I'll second the Champ, especially with a nice speaker installed.

Here's the thing, without too much math - a 1W amp is only half as loud as a 10W amp... there are tube amps in the 1-2W range, that use both sides of a "preamp" tube as the power amp - so even though it technically only has one "power tube," if it's a 12--7 or something like that, there are two sections inside, and so they are still push-pull. Sorry, I can't name them. Search those out, also - but you will probably have to be very patient in finding them!

Justin

You also want to keep in mind what you are playing. If you are a jazz clean guy what you have may be fine. If you are looking for breakup at a low volume, 5 watt single ended amps do that. Some are more buzz bombs than others. It's pretty subjective what "bedroom level" is. I have gigged quite often with a 5 watt amp. You may need an speaker attenuator if you plan to saturate the amp.

[eschertron]

Hi, and welcome to the forum!
Be careful around tube amps, their acquisition can become an all-consuming search for "tone".

If you want a tube amp for that 'tube' sound at bedroom volume, you'll not want one that gets too loud before that 'tube' zone is reached. IOW tubes can be pretty linear as amplifying devices until you approach the extremes of its operating envelope. Lots of guys with gigging amps fight the delicate balance between being quiet enough for the rest of the band and having just enough amplification for the tone they want. I've got a home-built amp that I calculate the power out at about 1/2W, yet if I turn it up the point of grindage it will be loud enough to be annoying (well, heard, anyway!) by housemates on the other side of a closed door. My (5 Watt?!) Champ is a snarling beast that sends home occupants running when it is unleashed. It can play at lower volumes, but won't supply the blues tone I'm after.

So think about the kind of tone you want. Clean, jangly country? Heavy distortion? The amp you choose will have to be able to produce the sound you want at the volume you need. I think you'll be fine if you start auditioning amps at the local guitar-mart in the 1..5W range. The home guitarist is quickly becoming a niche to be catered to, the list of amps you published certainly shows the variety that is available.

...and just to play the devil's advocate, I'll add that a stompbox can be bought to get a decent tube-emulation out of the Roland. That solution may be less expensive, and allow you to get the room volume under control independently from the sound of the guitar/stompbox combo.

edit: simulpost! OldDawg beat me to the volume/tone interaction thing.

[jmaf]

I came here to suggest the Champion 600, then I looked on Ebay and there are only a few for sale for 300 bucks or so. What happened? These used to be all over the place a few years ago. Unfortunately I lost touch with the amp market for a while, but now the little reissue champs are all gone?

[Justin Thomas]

Is that asking prices, or "completed auctions?" If the sale isn't completed, no use in using that as a guideline. EBay is grossly inflated for everything... Craigslist, too. Both are overrun with scammers...

Sad for the music biz, it's artificially inflated prices and blown everything all to heck.

But yes, you're saying a Champ 600 that I paid $129 for six years ago has more than double appreciated? So much for "cheap Chinese junk" never holding its own against "real" vintage amps! >:O

Justin

PS: if they really ARE $300 used, just spend the extra on a real-deal vintage Champ, pre-1981. But if you can get a 600 for $100, go for it!

[jmaf]

I just typed fender champion 600 into the search box....there are 4 amps that I see, three are modded kits, one is a 1951 dated Champ being sold from Australia. You know that song Where did all the Good Champs go? I don't wanna hijack the thread BTW, just genuinely surprised at the lack of Champs. OTOH I searched for Deluxe Reverb and there are hundreds.

[Justin Thomas]

I'll say this, then stop hijacking - a "modded" Champion 600 "reissue" is <NOT> worth three times as much as a new-in-box one! I am getting disgusted with people saying they "made it better," when in reality, I can either do it myself, or they just completely BUTCHERED the soul of the amp in the first place. I call that <BROKEN>!!! Same for the bigger amps - I do not pay full price for a Bandmaster with a Marshallized Normal channel! Okay, rant off... carry on!

But to the OP, these "mods" do not ADD to the intrinsic value of the amp... IMNSHO.

Justin

[eschertron]

^^^^

I about lost my cookies after I purchased a Champion 600 a few years ago, then saw all the hype about replacing speaker, transformer, etc for a total upgrade cost of more than double the cost of the amp! Since the Champion 600 comes with a 1/4" jack for the in-amp speaker, my 'mod' was to simply plug the amp into an available 2x12 cab. Yes, bigger speakers do make for bigger sound.

I think a new-in-box 600 is going for about U$150 these days. Now that the prices of CBS-era champs is sky high on Eek!bay, the 600 is a good way to enter the Fender tube amp world. just remember to turn the volume up to 12 and let 'er sing ... there are no other controls on the stock model.

[Justin Thomas]

And if you're up to it, a kit for a Champ is easy enough, and about the same price as a CBS Champ, and maybe even better quality! Well, at least as good... I'll sell my hacked Champ (now a Vibro-Blaster) for $300... cash... come pick it up!

Justin

And it sounds HUGE through a 2x15" w. Arion stereo chorus!

[Still Got The Blues]

Thank you for all your advices and interest guys.

But I still think I need more and simple information to discuss.

For example; hand-wiring amps do worth to to pay?
Orrr
Do the amps make differences to guitar type?
Etc.

I watched all amps -which i put on the list at top- intros on Youtube they all sound fine. But I can't be sure because they put mic front of the amps, or their playing styles effect the sound much, some of are using them with pedals, etc.
So I want to consider them with these handicaps.

Btw; for being more clear; quarter of volume scala is enough for me on my Roland 15-X.
And something is weird for me. When I use my amp with a very low volume point, I really like the sound when its on distortion side, but its a very short range. If I increase to volume bit much from that range, I feel like the sound changes suddenly and feels.. You know cheap, like its a very bad and simple amp. But in that a very short range it makes me feel like I don't need any other amp, like its quite quality amp.
I don't know the reason if I'm lunatic or it really gives a unique sound in that range.

OTOH, I mostly try to play Metallica, Gary Moore, Grunge and Classic Rock stuff.

So, I'll be waiting for your other comments too. Sorry for my grammar if I couldn't explain myself properly.

[eschertron]

A lot of older (70s era) Fender silverface amps could be gotten, until recently, for relatively small change. They are all hand-wired because that was simply how it was done. Today's hand-wired amps are either kits (good for the money, but you put $$time$$ into them), or small manufacturer/boutique offerings that tend to cost more because someone else put the $$time$$ into them.

there's nothing wrong with a PCB amp. To use the Champion 600 as an example, it is a PCB version of a hand-wired eyelet board. Doesn't look vintage, but the components are all easily accessible and big enough for someone like me to troubleshoot and modify. Come to think of it, I wouldn't be surprised at all to find it was hand-wired. it just wasn't hand-wired by someone in the USA.

Use your ears to judge the worth of an amp. Don't let snob appeal rob ya blind!

As you probably know, many styles of music are typified by a certain guitar/amp combo. Also, amp manufacturers like to think their amps have a distinctive tone that attracts potential players. OTOH there are amps (at any size and price point) that can cover a lot of bases well. You head towards the amps that do distortion/grind/compression well, given the styles that you list. Also an amp that can provide the distortion you want in the preamp section, and allow you to dial the power section's volume independently would be a plus.

...there are actually pedals that are tube preamps in a stomp-box. If you want the tube sound, with control over the room loudness, that might be an option too.

[The Dude]

I'll say this, then stop hijacking - a "modded" Champion 600 "reissue" is <NOT> worth three times as much as a new-in-box one! I am getting disgusted with people saying they "made it better," when in reality, I can either do it myself, or they just completely BUTCHERED the soul of the amp in the first place. I call that <BROKEN>!!! Same for the bigger amps - I do not pay full price for a Bandmaster with a Marshallized Normal channel! Okay, rant off... carry on!

But to the OP, these "mods" do not ADD to the intrinsic value of the amp... IMNSHO.

Justin

Agreed! I can't tell you how many amps I've fixed that were purchased by a customer off of eBay, only to find out that there were poorly done "mods". As you say, I consider this "broken", not "modded". I've put many an amp back to original specs/configuration and undone poorly executed mods. Everything from incorrect component values, poor soldering, etc. If you don't know how to run a DVM, can't solder, or don't know the difference between a 100 ohm and a 1K ohm, you have no business inside an amp.

As to the original question, only your ears can tell. As has been said already, the best thing you can do is go try out some amps and see what you like and what works for you.

[olddawg]

Might I suggest an Epiphone Valve Jr in place of a Champion 600? You can find them unmolested on CL for under $100. Under $200 for the head and the 12" speaker cab pair. The price of the of the 600 has gone up I fear because Radio Head and other bands have stated they used them in studio. The VJ is very similar. You can do a lot with a VJ, a couple of pedals, and an attenuator.