How do you know when to stop modding?

[The Dude]

We're getting a bit off kilter here, but FYI, I've seen some techs extremely talented with a solder gun. There was a guy at one of my TV tech training seminars that was demonstrating replacing surface mount IC's with a solder gun (yes GUN, not iron). It was quite amazing and he was obviously very experienced and talented with the tool.

[Steve A.]

I think the question is whether you have an actual goal or if you just like screwing with it.

Good point! I bought a Marshall DSL15C last year and I have very specific goals whenever I get around to modding it. The preamp is similar to the DSL40C, which has two switchable modes for the OD channel, Lead 1 and Lead 2. The DSL15C uses the Lead 2 mode which has way too much gain for me. (I like to be able to turn down the gain on an OD channel to get a grittier version of the Clean channel.) I looked at the schematics and it should be fairly easy to convert the OD channel into Lead 1 (I also read several threads on modding this amp.)

So why not just get a DSL40C??? I actually did but decided it was just too heavy and ended up bringing it back to GC and got the DSL15C instead. Funny thing is that the first used DSL40C arrived missing the back panel and the weight didn't bother me. When the second one arrived the added weight from the mostly sealed back panel was enough to tip the scales, so to speak.

I mention this to point out that I have a definite goal and plan, and won't just be screwing around aimlessly looking for some Holy Grail sound. There is one exception to all of this: if you have an old tube amp that no longer fits your style and has little resale value... go for it!

To answer the original question here I would stop modding whenever I thought it was now "good enough", especially if the circuitry was on a PCB since there are only so many times that you can replace a resistor or capacitor without damaging the copper traces. (Been there, done that... and I've had to replace plenty of damaged traces with 22GA bus wire or component leads.)

Steve Ahola

[Enzo]

There is an old trick with a solder gun. The stock tip is basically a loop of heavy wire with a knob of metal on the point
Weller Soldering Gun Tips | eBay

You take a piece of bare copper wire, 12ga., and stick the end through teh narrow gap, and wrap around a time or two the whole narrow end. Then bend the free end of your wire forward and cut it off like a half inch past the tip. Now the 12ga wire is your tip, and you solder with it. it is much friendlier to a circuit board than the heavy tip.

[Steve A.]

The question that should be in the back of our minds is "what if I ... spent that time practicing?"
(at least for me anyway)

True enough if you only have limited time to do one or another. I figure that I need to play at least 30 minutes a day to keep my fingers in shape.

I take exception to the term "practicing" used by folks everywhere... are they practicing for a big gig at Carnegie Hall?

I pick up my guitar and play, whether it is just me, or if I'm playing along with songs or backing tracks, or with actual musicians. Sometimes I do work on new material and I guess I should be practicing new riffs or scales, as well...

Steve A.

[Steve A.]

There is an old trick with a solder gun. The stock tip is basically a loop of heavy wire with a knob of metal on the point.

You take a piece of bare copper wire, 12ga., and stick the end through teh narrow gap, and wrap around a time or two the whole narrow end. Then bend the free end of your wire forward and cut it off like a half inch past the tip. Now the 12ga wire is your tip, and you solder with it. it is much friendlier to a circuit board than the heavy tip.

The Weller lighter gauge 8125W tips might work well, too. (The tips are iron coated and can be tinned.)

https://www.amazon.com/Weller-8125W-...dp/B00018APQU/

[Chuck H]

We can all take a tip from our good friend daz here! He build an amp he loved. He kept messing with it until he didn't love it anymore and had to struggle a little to get back to happiness. When he finally got the amp back to what he loved he built a clone of that amp to continue any further experiments. SMART!!! He almost ran over his reality check, but got it back and then preserved it. This is nothing like what "I" would do, but it merits recognition for it's sage awareness.

So... The time to STOP is NOW! Build another amp JUST LIKE THE ONE YOU HAVE and try new mods on that one. Then you'll always have your "special" amp.

EDIT: I just horsed around with this myself. My personal amp. I LOVE THAT AMP!!! But I went and did some mods anyway trying to achieve some non existent amalgamated oneness of all things good. And I did manage some headway in some tonal areas. But I can't live without what was lost in in the process. Fortunately for me it's a simple reversal. My advice? When you manage to create an amp that you play WITHOUT THINKING ABOUT YOUR TONE, leave it the "F" alone!!! Such occasions are rare for most guitarists and especially rare for amp tweakers.

JM2C on this matter.

[big_teee]

Isn't modding what custom amp building and work is all about?
We always want a little more of this, and a little less of that.
I do that with everything. It's in my DNA.
Tube Amps,
Pickups,
Guitars,
Etc.
T

[rjb]

As a rule of thumb, a good time to stop modding is sometime before you've absolutely ruined it.

A ROT that applies to many situations!
I've been told that the "ideal" tension for a banjo head is 1/4 of a bracket turn shy of popping the head....

[big_teee]

Another question that goes with when to quit modding.
When is the acquired gain level enough?
Gain freaks, always want more gain, more power!
T

[ric]

Another question that goes with when to quit modding.
When is the acquired gain level enough?
Gain freaks, always want more gain, more power!
T

That's an easy one, Terry. When it sustains but is still clear and you say to yourself, "this sounds like Santana", you're there. That's my holy grail anyway.

[rjb]

When it sustains but is still clear and you say to yourself, "this sounds like Santana", you're there.

Does anyone but Santana really sound like Santana?
Does anyone but Lesley West really sound like Lesley West?
Does anyone but BB King really sound like BB King?
Does the equipment really have all that much to do with it?

[big_teee]

If he wants to, Joe Bonamassa can sound a lot like each of them.
It takes both, talent and great gear!
T

[Leo_Gnardo]

Does anyone but Santana really sound like Santana?
Does anyone but Lesley West really sound like Lesley West?
Does anyone but BB King really sound like BB King?

Some of our crustomers, and even some of us techs, I'd dare to say (dare! dare!) do their best to attain the sound qualities of their "heroes" even if just a phrase or two at a time. Some have "tribute bands" whether you respect that format or not, they have to do their best to emulate Page or Gilmour or Townsend for a whole show. Others are content to quote a phrase or two in the course of a show, and that makes their day. One of my customers seems to knit together borrowed snippets, kind of like a mockingbird; his audience and I find his playing very entertaining! Another interprets songs "in the style of" and makes hay with that. One of his numbers is the old country classic "Cold Cold Heart" done the way Jeff Beck would - heaps of fun!

If imitating some well known guitarist's sound is a goal, I don't see much problem with it - - - unless somebody tries to be the "new" Jimi Ray van Halen iow tries to make a career of it. Something about music production, unless the musicians like what they're doing, not much chance anyone else will either. So I say, quote away and do pursue other players' sounds, just don't make that the only thing you do. Imitations are often the stepping stones to developing one's own style, too.

Does the equipment really have all that much to do with it?

As in copying the guitars, rigs, effects, strings, picks & even cables of the stars?

Not so much but that doesn't prevent the music equipment industry do their best to support the notion that it does, and that sells an awful lot of gear doesn't it? Ka-ching! Works for some techs too - Cesar Diaz sure cashed in on the notoriety he developed for one example.

Back to the case of tribute bands, it's sometimes necessary to copy the gear to some extent, in order to "develop the vibe" and sometimes required to keep one's job. One of my customers plays in a well known Beatles tribute. For years he ran his guitar thru an early 60's brown Vibrolux, and he sounded just fine. But after a while the show's producer demanded he put a Vox on stage for looks so he splashed out for a good used one. One more iota of "believability" for the crowd and hundreds more paychecks for the guitarist.

[Justin Thomas]

With all respect:

I think there's a clear difference between adopting certain elements of someone's style of playing and incorporating it into your own, and just being an all-out clone. And yes, equipment has SOMETHING to do with it... I'd like to see someone do Neil Young (Crazy Horse) on a cranked-up Jazz Chorus... one of the ones before they started building in the distortion. Is equipment everything? No. Does it help? Yes. David Gilmour sounds like David Gilmour whether playing a Tele into an Orange (1968) or a Strat into a HiWatt (1972). But there's definitely a difference between the two. He sounds great through a Dual Showman Reverb, too. But different.

Yes, any great player will sound like same great player through anything, but they still have their preferences. The question is, can YOU sound like YOU through anything? Yes, I can sound like me. But I certainly have my preferences, and I find it much easier to get MY sound out of my Bassman than a Squire Sidekick.

Justin

[ric]

Does anyone but Santana really sound like Santana?
Does anyone but Lesley West really sound like Lesley West?
Does anyone but BB King really sound like BB King?
Does the equipment really have all that much to do with it?

Guess my post wasn't clear rjb. I meant the amp has a similar tone to the great tone Santana gets. I'm not under any delusions that I sound like anybody but me.