Ampeg V4 PT

[The Dude]

Thought I'd run this by y'all before I order.

I've got an Ampeg V4 (distortion model) with a shorted PT. I'm looking at this:

Power Transformer for Vintage Ampeg V4/VT22 w/Distortion - Product Details

Does anybody know of a better option? Better price? Rewind? Better quality?

[Enzo]

If they say Heyboer makes it, I suppose you could call Heyboer and innocently ask if they make a transformer to replace the V4 PT.

[Justin Thomas]

What's a rewind cost? Heck, for the cost of a new head vs. Fliptops price, I'd look for a Hammond replacement... would a 279CX have enough heater current? AES has them listed for $113. Of course, there's always the issue of mounting holes, but in an amp of this "vintage," I wouldn't be too worried about an "exact" fit...

Justin

[Chuck H]

Ordinarily I'd agree with this. Or an Edcor product could be selected. But in this case the PT has some pretty specific requirements for stock installation like a bias tap AND a CT screen winding but a non CT plate winding! In this light I think avoiding the need to kludge in the transformer AND the circuit is well worth the extra $70 to the customer. It's also a good idea to support Fliptops. They're our only source for many vintage Ampeg specific parts and I've been VERY happy for their existence a couple of times. I can promise this, were it not for them this PT wouldn't be available and kludging would be the only option.

[mhuss]

a good idea to support Fliptops.

I big +1 to that. While we all generally look for the cheapest solution when sourcing parts, there's something to be said for supporting a 'labor of love' business that provides a valuable (and basically irreplaceable) service.

[bob p]

At that price Dude, I think it's a no-brainer. I'd buy it from Fliptops or call Heyboer like Enzo suggested.

Although $200 seems like a lot for what it is, the key is that it is what it is and everything else isn't. Sometimes if you need an exact part for obsolete electronics there's a premium involved and getting the right part is worth it. In the big scheme of things $200 is a pretty good deal, when you consider that your choice of suppliers is limited and Mercury wants to bend you over for twice as much.

Regarding the comparison the cost of new head, that's sort of an apples to oranges situation. I'm thinking that one of the Loud reissues isn't a valid comparison. One of the things that makes an original V4 sound like an original V4 is that it operates 7024 at rip-your-face-off voltages close to 600 VDC. The amp is aggressive and dynamic. Loud runs their 6L6 almost 150 VDC lower. IMO there's no way to keep the original feel at those voltages. If it were up to me, I'd restore the amp to originality and make it right with a drop-in replacement part. I wouldn't let $200 stand in my way.

I wonder how high the heater voltages run in that circuit, considering that Floptops' repro iron is made to original specs.

[Justin Thomas]

In just mentioned a new head as the last one I saw for sale was $450. Ugly, but exactly as you described it. And it had the Sovtek 5881WXTs in it, at about 570V. I didn't mean a Loud reissue at all - I meant a LOUD real-issue from the 70s.

Justin

[bob p]

Oh -- sorry if I misread what you were saying. I wasn't thinking that "new" meant "another old one".

In the big scheme of things, even if the customer rolls out of that amp and into another one, the original amp still needs to be fixed. Somebody's going to buy it and fix it up, and there are only two outcomes -- a proper fix or a hack job. To me there just seems to be something right about fixing an amp the right way when you have a chance to do so, and preventing a vintage amp from being hacked up by someone else. but that's just me.

[Justin Thomas]

Sorry, I pretty much don't buy ANYTHING new... tubes, strings, caps, resistors... that's about it!

Justin

[The Dude]

Update: Customer approved the estimate, so I went ahead and ordered the transformer from Fliptops.

[bob p]

Good deal. When the customer gets his final bill, you might want to let him know that Mercury Magnetics wanted $440 for their transformer and that you had to spend your own personal time hunting down a better deal for him. IME people like to know that you went the extra mile to save them $240 rather than just dropping the most expensive / easy to find parts in their amp and running up the bill.*

http://www.mercurymagnetics.com/page...s/MM_ampeg.htm

* Of course, you may not want to share supplier and cost information and that's entirely your decision.

[Chuck H]

Good deal. When the customer gets his final bill, you might want to let him know that Mercury Magnetics wanted $440 for their transformer and that you had to spend your own personal time hunting down a better deal for him. IME people like it when you go the extra mile to save them $240 rather than just dropping the most expensive / easy to find parts in their amp and running up the bill.

Well, now, those prices depend on...

Does Dude mark up his parts? Believe it or not some shops do. 100%!!! They purchase wholesale and resale whenever possible but have a standard 100% markup on all parts THEY had to acquire to perform the work. Some auto shops do this too. Of course "I" don't and I doubt many here do. Imagine upselling the Mercury product and handing the customer a marked up price for it though!

[The Dude]

A couple of things to pass on:
1) I'm a MM dealer, so I get a dealer discount on their iron. Even so, the price was not even close to the Fliptops price. Because I'm a dealer doesn't mean I don't still look for the best deal for my customers. My loyalty is to my customers and not to any vendor. There are times when MM works out and other times not so much.
2) Yes, I do mark up my parts. Certainly not 100%, but I do mark them up. I'm not sure why you wouldn't? It's standard practice in most any service industry. IMO, you have to justify your time finding and ordering parts, doing and keeping inventory, etc. It costs time and money stocking and ordering parts, why shouldn't you get paid for it? Be certain that, when you take your car into the shop to get your starter replaced, the shop marks up the starter.
3) I agree that it wouldn't be a good idea to mark up the retail price on a MM transformer, but that's why we have dealer accounts.

[bob p]

Yeah, Chuck, I understand completely. But a 100% markup on parts like transformers can be hard to justify in today's market, and it may not even be enough on some things like passives. But marking up parts is more difficult today than it was 15 years ago before all parts were primarily sold online. Today everyone can find the price of just about anything by going online.

I agree ... shops that mark up parts don't need to disclose all of the supplier/price info, that's why I mentioned that as being optional. But today we're in a situation where there are a very limited number of suppliers for oddball parts, the internet makes those prices transparent, and chances are your customer already knows your parts cost if he bothers to look.

I don't know if Fliptops offers tech pricing or not. Some places do, and don't openly advertise it. Ted Weber was very good about giving you a discount on a phone order when you told him that you were a tech and you were ordering parts for a customer's amp. (I don't know if Weber still does this or not, Ted was still alive the last time that I called them.) Then there are places like Mercury who publish their dealer prices out in the open where everyone can see them. WTF? Are they just trying to screw their tech customers?!?

Whether or not anyone chooses to mark up their parts is entirely their decision, but in today's market it is difficult to pass along a significant markup on expensive parts without pissing off the customer. One way to get around that is to charge for the time that you have to spend on a parts hunt. My point was that when you have to spend your time chasing down a better deal -- like Dude did by posting here -- to save a customer money, it's OK to charge for that. Sometimes showing a customer the $250 full delivered price compared to a $500 full delivered price will make them more agreeable to paying for your time hunting parts for them. but then it all depends on how you want to run your shop. It's 6 of one and half-a-dozen of the other.

edit: looks like Dude and I did a simulpost.

[The Dude]

For clarity, I don't mark up anything 100%. I mark up what I believe to be a fair amount for my time and trouble to either order or stock the part(s). I have had customers ask about it and I explain that it takes time and money to research and order parts- whether stocked or special order. Add to that the bookkeeping aspect, which also takes time. I haven't had a complaint about it and they usually understand. I believe the key is to be reasonable. Most reasonable people understand that you can't simply pass along parts and stay in business. And, of course, not everyone is reasonable.