I’m stunned at the price of some amps nowadays! Walmart!

[Chuck H]

Yea China is not the problem. It's the cheap-ass american consumer who doesn't get paid a decent wage.

nosaj

Point taken. And a big reason the wife is willing to buy the $20 toaster Other countries might not see the average American as not being payed a decent wage, but it's all relative isn't it. Still... It's been my experience that there's actually value in buying quality, serviceable products. A good couch costing $1000 made with a sturdy frame and quality fabric can be cleaned, cared for and used for some fifteen years or more and is more comfortable, looks better, won't outgas toxins due to cheap fillers and fire retardant and won't crack in the frame when kids climb all over it. Whereas that $300 couch, while pretty nice looking and comfortable at first is going to be a lot more prone to tears, fading, cracked frame, the filler starts to break down within a couple of years so it's not comfortable anymore and is stuffed with cheap polymer foam and soaked in cheap fire retardant that will both make you sick. If you're careful with it it might last six years but it's really not worth having and even embarrassing after four or five years. So the actual cost of ownership between the two options is the same, but by buying the better product in the first place you enjoy a lot more comfort, style and your nevous system isn't poisoned

Same with my shoes... I wear Dansko or Troentorps clogs for just walking around (I do have soft shoes for when I'm off the pavement). People often comment on my shoes and ask what they cost. I tell them $150 and they usually shudder and say they couldn't afford that. Well... They're the only shoes I've ever owned that last four or five years with hard use. That's roughly $37 bucks a year for my walking shoes. Most people I know buy a $65 pair of sneakers every year. As I said, I have sneakers too, but they last a lot longer because I only use them for fishing and hiking. So maybe a pair every four years. So my yearly shoe budget is around $54 and my shoes are WAY more comfortable and stylish. I just took a tip from hospital and restaurant worker about Dansko clogs. A really high number of people in those industries wear them because they're on their feet all day.

This is the sort of thing I'm talking about. Not "I only buy the best, hum-hum-hurrumph." or anything like that. I'm saying it's typically expensive to buy cheap. Though there are some pretty decent inexpensive guitar amps out there, I'll wager there's already a much higher percentage of them in the trash heap than any amp built before, I dunno, 1980ish.

[dmartn149]

Okay, I know I'm in the minority here, but here is an excerpt from a Cato Institute analysis (yes I know about the Koch brothers)

An examination of the past 30 years of U.S. economic performance offers no evidence that a rising level of imports or growing trade deficits have negatively affected the U.S. economy. In fact, since 1980, the U.S. economy has grown more than three times faster during periods when the trade deficit was expanding as a share of GDP compared to periods when it was contracting. Stock market appre-ciation, manufacturing output, and job growth were all significantly more robust during periods of expanding imports and trade deficits.

If anyone can point to contrary evidence I'll be happy to read it.
Here is a link to the whole report.
https://object.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/tpa-045.pdf

[rjhalsey]

Sometimes Monoprice has 10-20% off coupons.

[nosaj]

Okay, I know I'm in the minority here, but here is an excerpt from a Cato Institute analysis (yes I know about the Koch brothers)

An examination of the past 30 years of U.S. economic performance offers no evidence that a rising level of imports or growing trade deficits have negatively affected the U.S. economy. In fact, since 1980, the U.S. economy has grown more than three times faster during periods when the trade deficit was expanding as a share of GDP compared to periods when it was contracting. Stock market appre-ciation, manufacturing output, and job growth were all significantly more robust during periods of expanding imports and trade deficits.

If anyone can point to contrary evidence I'll be happy to read it.
Here is a link to the whole report.
https://object.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/tpa-045.pdf

Not what I was getting at. Around these parts rent starts out at around 800 for a 2 bdrm apartment, 3bdrm house about a 1000 and a 4 bedroom about 1200 a month.
Rent start getting crazy when people bought new houses an rented their old ones at a rate to pay the morgate on their new one. The pay scale stayed the same .
Almost 5 years ago I started as a helper in a cabinet shop at $9 an hr. i now make $13 an hr. I can now almost make rent and all the bills with my cabinet job. Side jobs from amp repair help a little but that is more or less doing it for my mental health. My wife has a job that pays for the groceries.
I understand i couldve circumvented a lot of this by getting rid of my drug addiction way earlier in life. But the fact still stands that we are slaves who are a paycheck away from homelessness. God help me if something disabling happens.....

nosaj

[Chuck H]

Jason has his finger on it. The Cato report has to be taken with a grain of salt. Consider their report/s on global warming. Obvious efforts to play down the impact including the implementation of ridicule spin by calling it lukewarming. Ridicule spin in media is an old trick to control the mindset of a culture. This followed by many peripheral reports opposing any form of carbon tax. To be fair dmartn149 did disclose Cato's connection to Koch Industries. And though Cato Institute is supposed to be an independent and unbiased entity I think it's no coincidence their report benefits big oil commerce. If you consider this, and then that the top US export to China is fossil fuels and their peripheral products, and that Koch industries is the biggest fish in that pond it becomes hard to take the report seriously. At least for me. It's a good play to invite any counter studies as links because it implies that a credible argument couldn't be made otherwise. I disagree with this for the same reasons I believe the linked report isn't credible. It's just too easy to find a supporting opinion for anything on line. What I know is that here in the trenches, like in Jason's home (and mine) that the flowery Cato report doesn't hold a lot of water and reads like double talk. A "credible" source with a public face giving lip service to their corporate masters.

[dmartn149]

Ok, This'll be my last post on the subject. Then we'll have to agree to disagree The situation at my house is about the same as yours. I've been at my job almost 40 years.(printing press operator) It used to be a pretty good living for a high school graduate. Now, over the last 15-20 years we haven't been getting regular raises, and when we do get a raise it does't match inflation and is usually accompanied by an increase in insurance premiums. According to an online inflation calculator I should be getting paid about 50% more than I am.
The problem isn't inexpensive imported goods. I recall hearing on NPR that more than 80% of manufacturing job losses in the US have been due to technology, not imports. That is what is causing lower wages (and less employment) in my industry, and most others.
Now, if part of your income depends on repairing things that keep getting less expensive and less repairable, that is certainly a problem, but not for the general public, who benefit from useful inexpensive imports.

[nosaj]

Ok, This'll be my last post on the subject. Then we'll have to agree to disagree The situation at my house is about the same as yours. I've been at my job almost 40 years.(printing press operator) It used to be a pretty good living for a high school graduate. Now, over the last 15-20 years we haven't been getting regular raises, and when we do get a raise it does't match inflation and is usually accompanied by an increase in insurance premiums. According to an online inflation calculator I should be getting paid about 50% more than I am.
The problem isn't inexpensive imported goods. I recall hearing on NPR that more than 80% of manufacturing job losses in the US have been due to technology, not imports. That is what is causing lower wages (and less employment) in my industry, and most others.
Now, if part of your income depends on repairing things that keep getting less expensive and less repairable, that is certainly a problem, but not for the general public, who benefit from useful inexpensive imports.

Also an overall focus of the quality of work that younger people produce is less than stellar. But then again what do you have to look forward to? No pensions, hardly any healthcare and a low wage. People don't look at work the same and a vast majority try to get away with as little as possible.

nosaj

[nickb]

Dan argues that the monies received by the foreign exporter end up back in the importer country so it has no net harmful effect (pg 5). What he fails to point out is that (a) this money is used at least in part to invest in the importer country (stock, entire companies, bonds) in ways which in effect accelerate the flow of capital out of that country and (b) there is no guarantee that these monies will be repatriated at all in the short to medium term as the foreign exporter may choose to build up his own reserves or invest in other countries.

The reason GDP increases is not least because debt is included in the calculation, and as we just learned above a good chunk of the debt is owned by the foreign county. As Dan, I don't believe in trade barriers either it as just makes life miserable for both parties. Adam Smith explained this long ago. But the importing country does need to figure out how to make goods or services that the foreign person wants.

The distribution of wealth is back to the levels seen just before the Great Depression i.e. the wealthy have got wealthier. You must conclude that part of the reason wages are decreasing simply because the investors are keeping more for themselves. This isn't helped by the Government fudging the CPI to suit their own ends.

[nsubulysses]

Also an overall focus of the quality of work that younger people produce is less than stellar. But then again what do you have to look forward to? No pensions, hardly any healthcare and a low wage. People don't look at work the same and a vast majority try to get away with as little as possible.

nosaj

uhhh, what about every craft beer, boutique amp, boutique pedal, super nice high end coffee brands, etc that smoke the old standard brands offerings, which are kind of garbage by comparison in retrospect? The new generation is making the old standards obsolete because they are making modern things that are much better .

Like Marshall, Budweiser, Miller, Folgers coffee, digitech and boss pedals, etc.


Maybe it's true if you work at Marshall or Folgers that there's not much incentive to do great, but that's why so many people start their own brands that are displacing the old ones.

[nosaj]

uhhh, what about every craft beer, boutique amp, boutique pedal, super nice high end coffee brands, etc that smoke the old standard brands offerings, which are kind of garbage by comparison in retrospect? The new generation is making the old standards obsolete because they are making modern things that are much better .

Like Marshall, Budweiser, Miller, Folgers coffee, digitech and boss pedals, etc.


Maybe it's true if you work at Marshall or Folgers that there's not much incentive to do great, but that's why so many people start their own brands that are displacing the old ones.

My point of reference is the younger people that come to work in the cabinet shop with me. No many are willing to sweat in this heat an put out a good product and they don't like being told what to do. I can only reference my interactions, it wasn't a broad global Millenials are going to be the death of us that some clamor about.
nosaj

[Chuck H]

I can only reference my interactions, it wasn't a broad global Millenials are going to be the death of us that some clamor about.

Maybe not. But it's still fun to ridicule them.

[Justin Thomas]

Maybe not. But it's still fun to ridicule them.

I have to say, though - I have wanted to start a little "series" on Flarkbloop that celebrates my milennial friends. One I know worked 3 jobs and wemt to school 30 hours a week; some are out to take over the world...

Of course, I do know some who don't give a crap about anything. But that seems to have more to do with "never paid a bill on their own" than their age.

Anyway, I rant about them too, but more for a lack of skills that Gen-Xers would kind of assume everyone has as "common sense." But, not so common anymore.

Anyway, carry on!

Jusrin

[nosaj]

I have to say, though - I have wanted to start a little "series" on Flarkbloop that celebrates my milennial friends. One I know worked 3 jobs and wemt to school 30 hours a week; some are out to take over the world...

Of course, I do know some who don't give a crap about anything. But that seems to have more to do with "never paid a bill on their own" than their age.

Anyway, I rant about them too, but more for a lack of skills that Gen-Xers would kind of assume everyone has as "common sense." But, not so common anymore.

Anyway, carry on!

Jusrin

I always tell the new guys common sense is based on a bunch of mistakes already made. What is common sense to me sometimes has been developed Thomas Edison style....

nosaj

[dmartn149]

this money is used at least in part to invest in the importer country (stock, entire companies, bonds) in ways which in effect accelerate the flow of capital out of that country

Nick
Can you explain, give an example?

[Justin Thomas]

I think "please don't dump an entire bowl of soggy cereal into the sink without using the strainer" is not something that should have to be learned by experience... I've also seen them dump their cereal into the toilet because the dishwasher was full.

Jusrin