Amplification - WE NEED YOU !!!

[amp boy]

howdy all.
i hope yer all doing well, and the days are treating you just fine.

I'm here today posting this call for thoughts on my First Amp build.
These will be from high quality kits.

My dilemma is that i need to hear some experienced thoughts on the sound/tone and other or any variances you can think of.....examples of sound i should listen to and so on. I do not have access to these two amps in local shops. Please make suggestions and share your thoughts. I greatly appreciate your time, and value the good folks that i have read the words of here.

The contenders are the 5E3 Deluxe and the 1974x Marshall 18 watt.
with note that i would like to build a vox ac15 someday.
and perhaps my own lil american tribute with a 5F1 Champ, though i want to be able to build my own cabinet for that project, and that's a good year away i'd imagine.

I would like to ask....do these amps or amp circuits have enough of a difference in tone and sound to them to warrant building them. I guess I'm trying to learn as much as i can....due to that i cannot afford, and would like to try to not overlap myself.

I will only be playing for the most part for myself. Recording at home (when i figure this part out) No gigs, but perhaps someday. So I'm not thinking over 20 watts, and yes i know 5 is loud.

In regards to the 1974x, could anyone tell me their thoughts on having Treble,Middle, Bass.....instead of the Tremolo channel. I am not familiar that well with amps with TMB. I do have future plans to build a Weber Reverb/Trem head. So i thought if i choose this route why double on the Trem when i could use that effect box with this amp, and others.

With the TMB channel, can it be jumper'd to the normal, like how the 5e3 has this ability ??

Any word on recommended cab/speaker configuration...1x12, 2x12 etc...

Tonal qualities and so on....the floor is yours....please.

In regards to the 5E3 Deluxe, the one option that i am interested to incorporate if possible is an ample transformer, and switch to designate the option of 6L6 or 6V6 tubes.

Tonal qualities and so on........the floor is now afire, so please take to the stage.....

About myself, if this may help.....

I am currently assembling my first telecaster....i would rather build and learn than buy, same goes for amps. Just waiting for my Terry Downs dvd in the mail. Nice guy to write to.
I am a novice guitar player, and i know that. This has never detracted my love of guitar tones in any way. In fact i really know when i hear something i don't like, and something that i do......I'm a bit discerning with sounds.....hence, ya i said hence, my headphones broke some years ago....i have been saving and have given myself the holiday gift of the AKG701's. They are beautiful, and not even warmed up and broken in. Check'm out if you enjoy the "envelope of sound" a set of quality cans can bring.

I play a gretsch duo jet with bigsby, and soon to be a Tele !!!!!!!
I'm not much of a stompbox person. I own and love my Durham Electronics Crazy Horse pedal....love it on the bridge position when playing ( some meat to that bite...hahaha). So that is a fuzz/gain pedal of sorts. I have a EH delay pedal, and a wah for fun.
I currently play through a vox VR30.
it was the best $200.000CAD clean sound i could find.
a really good "practice" amp for the money, and sweeter than any of the others i could try. i don't use the two distortion buttons that are on there.
they turn the sound to....well i call it crap, some may call it cheap gold ??

The sound that i believe fits my playing style is would be....
warm clean with grit...but the desire to ramp up when needed to raw, though with volume added. I am not into modern distortion, at least a lot of what i hear in "mainstream commercial" music......in fact i just don't get it.

My Sound/Tone influences are Neil Young/Sonic Youth.
I believe Neil's gift of Living With War, is a such a damn good guitar sound.

So I thank you immensely for your time, and greatly appreciate all that you may say. Please, if you think of something i have not asked or seem to be thinking of, or so on....tell me.
All refferences and information are most welcome,
perhaps we can all learn from this.

Thank you kindly,
- amp boy

[Chuck H]

Sounds like you have alot of plans to build stuff. You're in for a fun ride with better than average tone, but don't expect to save alot of money that way. The cost of quality parts (transformers, speakers and componants) that make the amps we build sound good is high for one off builds. Buying the kits can help avoid the testing and doubling up on expensive parts because the guys who sell them have done all the research already.

After reading your post I think you could do well with a Mission 5E3. I won't trouble to describe the tone because so many of the adjectives used can be subjective. Go here:

http://www.missionamps.com/

IMHO the 18 watt is a crunch machine and can't touch the 5E3 for clean and slightly overdriven tones. Especially with a tele. So the 5E3 would be a more versitile amp and should therefore precede any others. After all, if your budget should run short after this project, you'll have already built your most useful amp. As you no doubt know, Neil uses a Deluxe. Also, you plan on building an AC15 later. That will cover alot of "brittish" ground without the need for an 18 watt yet.

Chuck

[amp boy]

Any Allen Amp info.....

thanks Chuck.....in fact I have been paying a lot of attention to Bruce and Mission Amps. So i was always in fact looking to go their way for the 5E3 Build.

Today someone mentioned this Allen Hot Fudge with Nuts amp to me..
said it might be what i'm looking for.
http://www.allenamps.com/hotfudge.php
if anyone has thoughts on this as well, that would be appreciated.

[Chuck H]

$690.00 for the Mission 5E3

$925.00 for the Hot Fudge w/Nuts

The Mission amp is a known quantity (you already know what a 5E3 sounds like and these kits are popular for a reason). Bruce is known for his excellent tech support. The 5E3 will nail those Crazy Horse tones (with a humbucker equipped guitar) and much more. You can't get more info on any kit than the Mission 5E3. Bruce has already worked out which transformer upgrades you may want for a 6V6 / 6L6 amp. This forum has a whole area and lots of members devoted to them. = Lots of circuit and voicing upgrades for free. Costs $235. less than the Allen.

The Allen HFw/N sounds like a really cool amp. I have never played or heard one. The HF/wN has a couple of extra voicing switches and a trem. I'f you use trem, that is very compelling. IMHO the HFw/N comes with a better speaker. But Bruce is good about reasonable upgrades. Allen amps have a great reputation. The HF/wN is not just another 5E3 (pro / con, you decide) Costs $235.00 more than the Mission.

Thats all I know about it.

To me it's like any time you see everyone walking around with THE thing. And you decide you would like THAT thing. So you go to the store to get THE thing, and you see a different thing. You think 'maybe this thing is better for me than THE thing', so you buy the other thing and after a 2 week love affair you start wishing you'd bought THE thing for the same reasons everyone else did buy it. But you already spent your money on the different thing.

Chuck

[amp boy]

some good points chuck, thank you.

I saw the Hot Fudge with nuts for $850 on his site....did i miss something ??
I've heard some good word on the Brown Deluxe, and that is what this is modeled after....so i must admit that i am intrigued.

I think i may end up going with Mission, wish i did in the summer when it was a bit cheaper, but ya snooze ya lose...hahahahaa
either way it's gonna cost me about a grand i figure.
I plan on going with a Weber speaker....just always have.
i've heard jensens in the reissues and i don't like them that much.

I like Trem, and reverb.....so i have given thought to adding them on in the future.
This week two dave hunter books should arrive, and i hope that will shed some light for me. I don't get caught up in trends, except for the idea of building and doing things as best you can for yourself, i just don't have experience in playing many amps. So it feels like looking around a bit blindly at times.
and this is why i appreciate and enjoy forums such as this one so much.

[Chuck H]

"I saw the Hot Fudge with nuts for $850 on his site....did i miss something ??"

Maybe. I may have misinterpeted the way the pricing is laid out. The page indicates "see below for speaker options" As a speaker option for the HFw/N they offer the Eminence Red White And Blues...And then the price of $75.00 is indicated. But no other speaker for the amp is mentioned specifically. But it does say you can choose any Eminence speaker for no extra charge. The way I read that, you have to buy the speaker also.

Chuck

[amp boy]

Chuck I'm going with a mission kit most likely.
The funny thing is i have always thought so for the most part.
Guess one's own instincts can serve them the best.
i'm gonna write to bruce this week.