How about that Vox AC30?

[Robmosis]

Rob:

Another option is the handwired AC30HW that they put out in 2007. There is an EF86 channel along with a regular Top Boost channel that you would expect in a Vox. I believe it comes with Vox's own version of the Celestion Blues which sound really good to my ears. As I recall the Chinese AC30 came with your choice of Celestion Blues or the cheaper Vox speakers.

I believe that the schematic is similar to the AC15HW (which is the one that has me drooling- the AC30 weighs something like 80 pounds!):

http://www.blueguitar.org/new/schem/..._handwired.pdf

I'm planning to build the EF86 half of the amp in an Epiphone Valve Junior head... woohoo!

Steve Ahola

I agree! If I could have afforded it I would definetly have bought the AC30HW. besides the fact that it is hand wired it is built with better jacks and corners. But the custom classics still use the same split circuit boards for the pre and OT. Looking at the schematics between the HW and CC you can see that they still keep the old simple is better electronics that gives vox that great tone and response.
If you can afford it I would get the HW but I am very pleased with the sound out of my AC30CC. Like I said I was a little weary but after playing it for a while it is absolutely a fantastic sounding Vox. Unless you get a faulty one no one can honestly say that Chinese made vox's are crap. If they do they are probably vintage hounds with a one track mind.
Boy that sounds kinda mean, But I cant think of any ather opinion on it so sorry if I offend someone.
Peace and tone to all, Rob

[Bruce / Mission Amps]

I've heard a few of these and they are pretty darn good... but for all you player/builders hung up on the VOX amp using an EF86.... interestingly, many of the players I've talked to who's been using the amp for any length of time, seemed to prefer the 12AX7 section. Maybe most of them....
Not sure what that means but just thought I'd throw that out.

[Robmosis]

I've heard a few of these and they are pretty darn good... but for all you player/builders hung up on the VOX amp using an EF86.... interestingly, many of the players I've talked to who's been using the amp for any length of time, seemed to prefer the 12AX7 section. Maybe most of them....
Not sure what that means but just thought I'd throw that out.

I Have not played through an EF86 (at least not that I know of)and since I am on the long, great journey of learning the in's and out's of tube amps I am not sure what the difference is, so I can not really comment on how they sound, But of the tube amps that I have played I do believe that I would prefer the 12AX7 preamps.
I would also worry that it would take the authenticity of the AC30 tone and change it. But there must be something about the EF86 that people like. I think the originality of the 12AX7 pre is what people will ultimately want.(IMHO)

[Robmosis]

Speaker upgrade?

By the way does anyone have any suggestions on what speakers to upgrade my AC30CC with. I purchased the one with standard Warf's but eventually will upgrade. I don't really want to spend 300 on the blues so I was thinking about celestion greenbacks. I hear people talking about the celestion silvers but I can't seem to find them anywhere and have no idea what they would run. I do want to stick with Celestions because I have always used them in my amps and you just can't beat them.(IMO)
If anyone has had good luck with any combination I would like to know. This and tubes will be my next purchase.
Peace and Great Tone to all, Rob

[HTH]

best mod I've done to an AC30CC was to upgrade the OT with a Mercury Magnetics RS Hygrade clone - this improved the amp 200% at least and made a good amp a killer amp.

[pdf64]

To answer post #7, the issue with the standby switch implementation, was, as I understand it, that the dc output from the GZ34 was taken from pin 2, the heater, rather than pin 8, the common cathode (and other end of heater). This layout worked, but added the heater 5V on to the ripple, and fed all the B+ current via the heater. The heater coil in the recitifier isn't designed to cope with the switch on current surge (from charging up the reservoir cap) in that configuration, result being that eventually the heater goes open circuit. Peter.

[Steve A.]

I've heard a few of these and they are pretty darn good... but for all you player/builders hung up on the VOX amp using an EF86.... interestingly, many of the players I've talked to who's been using the amp for any length of time, seemed to prefer the 12AX7 section. Maybe most of them....
Not sure what that means but just thought I'd throw that out.

Bruce:

Well, I think that the EF86 channel might be a bit more primitive for us caveman types...

Some people have suggested replacing the 4M7 screen resistor for the EF86 with a 1M resistor.

I figured that the EF86 half of the amp would be really slick in a Epiphone Valve Junior chassis- which is a very primitive amp, too.

Rob:

I believe that the EF86 preamp was used in the earliest AC-30's (the Top Boost channel with the 12AX7 coming out in the mid 60's). And I think that they came out with the AC30/6 in the late 60's with both the EF86 and the Top Boost preamps- but my computer is not cooperating with me in trying to verify all of that...

In any case for many people the EF86 preamp *is* the authentic sound of the Vox AC-30's (ever heard of The Beatles and The Rolling Stones?)

I do think that the switching options on the Chinese AC30CC's are great- giving you a lot of the classic Vox sounds for a decent price. I was considering these at GC during one their sales last year, but the two floor models that they were selling didn't work!

Most people want the Celestion Blues (or Silvers- same thing but different color paint) in their Vox AC-30's. Weber and Eminence are supposed to make decent copies but I don't know how much you would save. The Celestion Greenbacks are entirely different speaker, with a ceramic magnet instead of Alnico- I like them in a lot of amps but I have not heard them in an AC-30. Warehouse Guitar Speakers makes a lot of Celestion copies that many people prefer to what Celestion is having built in China these days (buy American!) Their Blue copy sells for $225 each- plus about $25 for shipping for two of them.

Steve Ahola

[Robert M. Martinelli]

but for all you player/builders hung up on the VOX amp using an EF86.... interestingly, many of the players I've talked to who's been using the amp for any length of time, seemed to prefer the 12AX7 section. Maybe most of them....
Not sure what that means but just thought I'd throw that out.

Hi Bruce,
FWIW I think that can be related to the tendency of EF86s to become microphonic, working musicians need reliable equipment, and having an amp starting to rattle right in the middle of a gig is the worst of a working musician's nightmares...
BTW this was the reason why Dick Denney himself dropped EF86s in favor of ECC83s in the second issue of his AC30. They trade a lesser gain and a poorer frequency response, being ( double ) triodes ( Miller capacitance ) for increased reliability. ( My '64 AC30TB never failed me in 25+ years ).

Or.... It's just that people has become so used to the way AC30TBs ( with 12AX7s ) sound that they find the EF86 channel too bright....who knows?

Best regards

Bob

[Robmosis]

Voxrules said: "To me, AC30s production ended the day they moved production to China - Period."
With all due respect to your opinion and knowlege of Vox I really do not understand why people are nocking the Chinese made AC30's. I purchased one and couldn't be happier. I also do my research before any big purchase I make. I do not just take the reviews from customers but I try and follow up on what they say
In what I found about the Chinese made Vox's they are just as good if not better in some ways as the Englund made. Some minor items are cheaper like jacks and corner plates. But the fact is that they are made in the same quality control variables as the original plant. Parts are still made by Vox and in many respects a lot of the metal sensitive material (OTs for example) are able to be made to better to vintage than anywhere else due to the lack of major government enviromental laws. They are able to use more original metal compounds.
Now yes the Labor is much, much cheaper, but the electronics experience in this part of the world is much greater than in many others.
I have found many high end Chinese made electronics and instruments to for surpass some American or Englund made products, and vise versa.
So if someone is interested in a AC30 then (IMO) you have nothing at all to worry about in the Chinese Manufactured Custom Classics.
Peace and Great Tone to All, Rob

[Robert M. Martinelli]

Rob,
Let me make my point clearer....
My statement wasn't related to sound alone, it was about history, quality, building methodology, time passing, destiny......and...what else?( I'm surely forgetting something ).

Call me romantic, but let me ask you one question: would you accept a Chinese made Rolls Royce, or a Chinese made Ferrari?

If you take a close look to Vox's history there' s much more than the products alone, my "hyperbolic statement" wanted to reflect the sadness and sense of regret in seeing an icon ( that's what the AC30 indeed is ) change forever. It's a matter of fact that the history of music ( well, at least the last 50 years ) would have been different without Vox.

Now, let's do some "tech talk". I admit these Chinese AC30 are good value for the money, and they made "the myth" accessible to many AC30 lovers, but let's face it, the quality of the components isn't ( and it could not be otherwise ) the same anymore. I think that no Chinese output transformer can be on par with an Hammond or a Mercury, let alone a good old Woden.
( HTH confirmed this by stating that changing the OT made a huge difference ) and as you know, the OT is only one of the factors....now, imagine what a pair of "blue" or "silver" AlNiCo speakers could do ( originals, not reissues ).

Times are changing, that I know, OTOH there must be a reason why people desperately seeks for vintage tone and equipment.

Allow me one last point on labor cost/production methodologies, environmental issues and human rights. ( I know not this is not technical, but I just couldn't help myself ). Everyone is capable of producing low cost equipment "the Chinese way", the h&cK with pollution and human rights ( and with people literally living their lives inside the factories and sleeping in sleeping bags ). In Europe and in the US we ( luckily ) have rules, regulations and rights, we tend to forget about it because we take them for granted.

I would gladly pay a Chinese AC30 ( or another Chinese artifact ) 500 USD more if that would mean workers ( human beings just like us ) are not mistreated and some attention is paid to environmental issues.

As you said:

Peace, ( love ), tone

Bob

[Robmosis]

I understand the vintage appeal and quality but I also feel that no matter how hard someone tries to reproduce a "vintage" piece of music gear it just can't be done. Let it be because of that one tiny resistor that was made with just the slightest difference in a batch of whatever. Their is a reason that one is willing to pay thousands for a "vintage" piece. So if that is what your looking for then thats that. But for people who just want a quality reproduction piece there is no reason (imo) to say that it is not the same when in reality they use the same design.
I am in no way saying that there aren't much better upgrade parts out there. I believe that is one of the advantages of buying a reproduction and being able to taylor it to your needs.
I also would never ever condone the mistreatment of humans just so I could get a better deal on a product. If the AC30 was being made in a "sweatshop" I surely would not buy it, nor would most. But they are not. The labor costs are much cheaper due to the fact that people in that part of the world are able to live on a lower wage. The price of living is much lower. These people are not slaves. Most of them are very smart engineer conciouse technitions.
Now I am also not saying that we should just ignore the environment just to have a cheaper product either. I am a very aware of my contribution to the environmental problems we face. I do everything I can to treat this planet well for my children. In fact my home(in which I built personally, no sweatshop here.LOL) is 70% solar powered. and I am in the process of adding a wind turbine. so I do care a great deal, But lets face it the environmental laws for manufacturing in our country are completely overboard. Not to mention the governmental standard fees that are imposed on manufacturers for no reason. This is the main reason company's move to China, Mexico, exc. Not because of labor costs. There are plenty af great Americans willing to do a good job for fair labor. Especially now days.
I know this for a fact since I have lost a job due to these very reasons. So if i came across like I did not care about these issues I apologize and hope I cleared some of it up.
Peace and Great Tone to All

[HTH]

The US is the world's biggest poluter along with China, so those environmental laws aren't exactly THAT stringent are they.

The US accounts for 4% of the world's population but produces about 25% of all carbon dioxide emissions. China accounts for 21% of the world's population but produces about 13% of all carbon dioxide emissions - saints by comparison.

The US (since Bush came into office in 2001) have also constantly refused to sign up to environmental treaties when all other EU members have roundly accepted that this is an important issue. Hopefully Obama will be more forward-thinking on this matter.

Are things perfect in the UK? - no!, but I'm not claiming they are either. The UK is equally a part of the problem, but at least we are actively addressing the problem.

Back onto amps... the AC30s made by Korg sounded too Marshally to me, very much like a Bluesbreaker. Still really nice amps, but not a true AC30 tone imo. The Chinese AC30CCs aren't constructed as poorly as people make out - the board and components are above average imo, but the transformers are poor and this has a massive impact on the tone.

With the stock AC30CC OT the midrange sounds wierd - phasey. Once I put the Mercury Magnetics RS Hygrade repro in the AC30CC (no other changes) the midrange was much more natural and overall tone improved vastly. In the stock form, I couldn't get an acceptable tone out of the top-boost channel - with the MM OT it was an amp I seriously considered buying for myself (was a local band's amp I modded).

[Robert M. Martinelli]

The Chinese AC30CCs aren't constructed as poorly as people make out - the board and components are above average imo, but the transformers are poor and this has a massive impact on the tone.

With the stock AC30CC OT the midrange sounds wierd - phasey. Once I put the Mercury Magnetics RS Hygrade repro in the AC30CC (no other changes) the midrange was much more natural and overall tone improved vastly. In the stock form, I couldn't get an acceptable tone out of the top-boost channel - with the MM OT it was an amp I seriously considered buying for myself (was a local band's amp I modded).

Hi HTH,

thanks for pointing out once again an issue that i firmly believe to be a key one. As already said, an OT is the most "critical" and most expensive component to be found in a tube amp ( all the more so in push pull designs ), so, putting in a cheap one represent the main saving factor in cutting costs.
All other factors being equal, a cheap OT can ruin the amp's tonal response and alter the waveforms, so i find it pointless to throw in "good" resistors and caps and throw in a cheap OT.

I've been both soldering and playing since the age of eight ( built my first AM receiver at the age of 10 ), I' ve been playing/repairing/testing a number of guitar amplifiers, and nothing surpasses the harmonic content, touch response and efficiency of a good pre-70s AC30 ( with original blue/silver AlNiCos ) in good working order IMHO.

As already stated, I still do think these Chinese AC30 to be very good value for the money, and they're good to approach the "wonderful world of AC30s" without sucking your bank account dry, but they nonetheless represent a compromise, and, unfortunately, they do compromise on the two most important ( sound-wise ) parts of an amp : the output transformer and the speakers.

If someone will stumble upon a "true" AC30 I think he'll understand what I mean.

Best regards

Bob

[Steve A.]

... I've been both soldering and playing since the age of eight ( built my first AM receiver at the age of 10 ), I' ve been playing/repairing/testing a number of guitar amplifiers, and nothing surpasses the harmonic content, touch response and efficiency of a good pre-70s AC30 ( with original blue/silver AlNiCos ) in good working order IMHO.

As already stated, I still do think these Chinese AC30 to be very good value for the money, and they're good to approach the "wonderful world of AC30s" without sucking your bank account dry, but they nonetheless represent a compromise, and, unfortunately, they do compromise on the two most important ( sound-wise ) parts of an amp : the output transformer and the speakers...

Just pointing out that the Chinese AC30CC2X comes with the Celestion Blue speakers for about $1800 (compared to the current street price of $1200 for the amp with the Wharfdales). Not too long ago they were selling for $1600... darn!

I did have a question for HTH... which of the following MM OT is the one that you recommend ("RS Hygrade repro")?

OUTPUT
Radiospares OT O45RS-L Radiospares -- leads $250.00
Radiospares OT O45RS-L-8 Radiospares -- leads -- 8k primary -- standard RS secondary $265.00
Radiospares OT O45RS-L-16 Radiospares -- leads -- 3.4k, 6.6k & 8k primary -- 16Ω tap $270.00

Thanks!

Steve Ahola

[Robert M. Martinelli]

Just pointing out that the Chinese AC30CC2X comes with the Celestion Blue speakers for about $1800

Yup, Steve, but sadly most ( all ? ) Celestions nowadays come from China just as well, I was talking 'bout the blue/silver originals.

BTW, an "historic" footnote : The original blue/silver AlNiCos are exactly the same speaker, the only difference being the color, as Vox at a certain point ( AFAIK circa the end of 1964 ) ceased to pay Celestion an extra price for painting the speakers in blue ( as a cost cutting countermeasure ).

Best regards

Bob