Carol Ann Amps

[tschrama]

No, that hum reduction bla bla is BS. But good news if you indeed can remove it with a heatgun!

[Chuck H]

No, that hum reduction bla bla is BS. But good news if you indeed can remove it with a heatgun!

Ah, but can you? If the guy is BSing about the purpose of the goop, why wouldn't he BS about it's manageability??? I don't know if the board is PCB or eyelet/turret or who knows what else but if it's a PCB you might find that softening and ripping up that goop also rips up copper traces or some other catastrophe.

[stokes]

Ah, but can you? If the guy is BSing about the purpose of the goop, why wouldn't he BS about it's manageability??? I don't know if the board is PCB or eyelet/turret or who knows what else but if it's a PCB you might find that softening and ripping up that goop also rips up copper traces or some other catastrophe.

Thats been my main concern, Chuck, ripping the crap off and tearing some cheap PCB to hell.I'm inclined to think the purpose of this goop given by the builder is BS, but I dont know.I have to think a guy that has built and sold a lot of what seems to be good amps, gets hi praise from Joe Bonamossa,and Joe knows his shit about gear,is a bit more more advanced in this business than I. Maybe he knows something I dont.I dont want to pull this stuff off only to find it does have a function of some sort.So what I'm looking for here now is if anybody can confirm or debunk the function he describes.

[g1]

I could see it if he was talking about reducing microphonics, but in my mind, anything to do with EMF shielding requires a conductive material. And that would not be a good thing in contact with components or traces. Especially in high voltage tube circuits.

If someone is aware of non-conductive EMF shielding goop, please enlighten us.

[Helmholtz]

Well, the compound certainly shields - not against EM fields (except if there's a buried metal foil inside) but against photons .

If the material melts and can be removed using a hair dryer, it's probably tar/asphalt or black wax.
It should be possible to re-use it.

[stokes]

Thats exactly my thoughts, g1,I could see it dampening things but not sheilding any interference.May be possible to re-use it, but I'll be damned if I'm going to re-use it,if it does serve some important function, its technology above and beyond my skillset.I really want to help the guy out,but I have a bad feeling about this amp.I have a sense that its gonna be a boomerang repair.Fix something today and before you know it its back.He's coming today to pick up a Vibrolux I fixed for him, I'll talk to him about it and see where we go.I actually told him the best way to fix this amp is to use the Fender

[Carol-AnnAmps]

Hi,

This is Alan. I built this amp.
The 'goop' is industrial black hot glue and will lift with a heat gun, just don't let it melt fully as its annoying to deal with then. Heat the area up for about a minute then leave it 20 secs and then it should peel right off.
That stuff got used less and less over the years and in the end was only used to keep tight components such a ceramic caps from vibrating. In the 2006-to 2009 period I used a lot more, call it paranoia of the time.
In the later PCB amps I barely used any at all. So it ain't a Dumble where you risk to hurt things. You'd have to be trying hard to be a moron if you couldn't get this material I used off and damage something.

As far as schematics go, no I don't just publish them. Show me you have a legit business or are an actual qualified person (internet forum schooling doesn't count) and I'm happy to share schematics under an NDA.
Why is there an NDA requirement ?
Well because in some of the models there are circuit designs (auto-bias, channel switching over single coax, cell phone app biasing etc) that are legally protected circuits. I am currently in negotiation with a large Manufacturer to purchase some of this NDA so that makes it pretty obvious I don't want it out in the wild.
I don't care about the pre-amp or power amp designs, that can be out in public, but I'm not going to take the time to create a separate bunch of schematics for everyone. Anyway anyone who knows anything about amplifiers can very easily trace those circuits with no issues. For 100% of the items listed on this thread, there is zero need for a schematic. Common sense and experience should be enough to overcome those problems.
There are no amplifiers left in warranty. The business is now closed, but I'm happy to help a legitimate repair shop keep one on the road. I still have some spares, but not many.

To ChuckH: You make assumptions, if you have an amplifier please try the instructions above to remove the goop. If you don't have an amp, you have no skin in the game and your point is moot (and 100% incorrect).

To G1: Yes Sir, you are 100% correct and that note was badly written. The goop itself doesn't provide an EMI shield of course. However what that was referring to was I used the hot glue to also hold wires after lead dressing. So while not directly protecting against EMI, it stops certain high impedance wires from moving and being affected by local sources of EMI such as AC filaments.

With regards to the person who thought the demise of a business is a source of amusement. I built 2850 amps over 15 years. I provided exceptional support over those years. In the end it became unsustainable mainly because the used market of my own amps was kicking my ass. Fortunately I am a qualified Engineer and now design ECU's for robots and enjoying a much more pleasant life with a healthier balance than before.

Genuine techs who need help (not just generic advise) please feel to reach out to me alanraymondphillips @ gmail .com.

All the best, Alan

[g1]

Hi,

This is Alan. I built this amp.

Thanks very much for chiming in and giving us the straight goods Alan. And for being diplomatic.

[Mike K]

So I read through this, and I have some thoughts. Perhaps the owner can enlighten me on them.

For one, I agree with him that most of the responses were pretty snarky and not entirely helpful but the use of the goo is pretty suspicious, and something that I could see making repair techs pretty angry, so I'm seeing both sides.

My real rub is this: to the former business owner. Why hide your schematics? You're only doing a disservice to your customers who bought your amps. Your warranty period is gone, you don't want to fix them anymore, so who cares who does? This is not your issue anymore. I honestly wouldn't be mad at someone if they wanted to replace that goo section altogether.

You want people to sign a NDA, so it seems like the goo maybe had an an ulterior motive. I honestly don't care, but make it right for the people who bought your amps. They deserve to have access to the schematic.

[pdf64]

I can’t see how post 37 doesn’t answer / explain all that stuff?

[Mike K]

Yeah - I read it. I don't get it. If it's (truly) legally protected i.e. is patented, it's already in public domain. If it's a trademark, then it's not protecting the circuit and I wouldn't see the value in the circuit. It's likely something that is "obvious to those skilled in the art."

I could say more, but I won't...

[Chuck H]

Yeah - I read it. I don't get it. If it's (truly) legally protected i.e. is patented, it's already in public domain. If it's a trademark, then it's not protecting the circuit and I wouldn't see the value in the circuit. It's likely something that is "obvious to those skilled in the art."

I could say more, but I won't...

If it's patented PRIOR to being in the public domain there are laws against counterfeiting the circuits, BUT... It's a serious PITA to police this at every turn and the more common people copying your technology becomes, the harder it is to fight it in courts. Which no patent holder wants to use their time on. What exactly you think you could say that you won't I have to wonder about. The reality and logistics of building a small business while maintaining a patent are daunting. I could forgive some goop applied in the hope that there would be even a little less of that crap to deal with. This is actually an area I've perused for personal reasons. In the world of information technologies and big business dominating the profits I'm seeing precedence of patents coming to an end. At least if you hope to hold it against a huge corporation that draws a lot of water. Legal precedents as they stand can be played against the small innovator VERY effectively at this juncture in society and culture. Creativity is a very careful business now. Which is juxtaposed to the ideal that creativity should be unmitigated. Power to the people and creativity be damned. The corporate world is coming for you. And they WILL win. Though hope springs eternal among the masses.

[Mike K]

My thought is it is the end user who is suffering. Again, it's a tricky subject. I've been embroiled in it before and I will not disagree that small companies definitely have very little power in this. Even if they do hold patents, getting around such things is not unheard of and fighting a large company is not something that is easy to do.

Again, I feel for the customers who spent thousands on an amp and when it goes kaput, there's a NDA hanging with the technical support, rather than it just being in the public domain or with the owner. I can also understand a person wanting to protect their innovation, but again, this comes at a cost to the end user and thus should probably be disclosed upon purchase. And with the original response, the claim is that the goop is easily removed and anyone with technical ability could trace it and figure it. So then it becomes a moot point. The technology is in the public domain, why make it harder to diagnose and fix? This just affects the end user who has to be without their amp for an extended time while some poor guy scrapes the goop and traces the circuit.

The whole thing seems fishy and reminds me of a number of individuals we used to interview who wanted to sell us IP. It was always a waste of time. We would just string them along and suck as much data as we could from them. Others would be so secretive they wouldn't tell you anything until you gave them a big check and you couldn't be sure if they actually had anything worthwhile or were just blowing smoke. Maybe some people work this out, but I've never seen it happen. Again, meanwhile, someone's 3000 amp is sitting on a bench.

[Chuck H]

My thought is it is the end user who is suffering. Again, it's a tricky subject. I've been embroiled in it before and I will not disagree that small companies definitely have very little power in this. Even if they do hold patents, getting around such things is not unheard of and fighting a large company is not something that is easy to do.

Again, I feel for the customers who spent thousands on an amp and when it goes kaput, there's a NDA hanging with the technical support, rather than it just being in the public domain or with the owner. I can also understand a person wanting to protect their innovation, but again, this comes at a cost to the end user and thus should probably be disclosed upon purchase. And with the original response, the claim is that the goop is easily removed and anyone with technical ability could trace it and figure it. So then it becomes a moot point. The technology is in the public domain, why make it harder to diagnose and fix? This just affects the end user who has to be without their amp for an extended time while some poor guy scrapes the goop and traces the circuit.

I agree with this. I have my own venture in the works (don't hold your breath) and I have no plans to goop or keep the circuit a secret. If I can't police the patent it will be inevitable anyway. I don't plan to make it harder for customers.

[Carol-AnnAmps]

Just an update. These circuits are not rocket science, in fact in most cases it's electronics at its most simple level. The amp in question is very very simple and does not need a schematic to understand. Most of amplifiers I built have no goop on them, if they do it can be removed with a hot gun. I've not removed values from components. I would expect any competent tech to have a sig gen and scope and be able to debug this technology. It's only the more complex digital circuits used in some of the amps that ever require a schematic to debug. For those amplifiers that use microcontrollers and have firmware, RJM Music Technology have access to all the proprietary info. Ron can ask me anything about them and that avenue is wide open, he can also make footcontrollers that are compatible with the digital protocols used. I have no time for any aspect of this business and no amplifiers are in warranty any more. A qualified tech can easily service them and all parts or replacements can be obtained and for the digital stuff, RJM. I get that most people reading this are coming from a hobby perspective and are used to spending 2 mins on Google to get a schematic. The first AC30 I repaired in the 80s required me sending a copy of my academic qualifications in order to even get a copy of the schematic, that arrived by post at my cost a week later. My first Plexi schematic I had to draw by tracing the circuit of the amp myself because Marshall wouldn't release a schematic to anyone. I do answer people who are genuinely stuck with something if I have time. On the positive given the number of amps out there and the few questions I get I assume servicing isn't actually such a big issue. If anyone did trace one out and posted it online I certainly wouldn't go chasing after them.