speaker suggestion

[weeping6]

Hello all,
I wanted some suggestions by anyone with an opinion on types of speakers for a Fender Deluxe Reverb build I'm working on (AB763 circuit). I understand the tonal voice of a speaker is very subjective regarding the player's taste (what he/she wants and for what reason) but I don't have the money to go and buy 10 different types of high end guitar speakers and try them all out so I wanted to use everyone else's wisdom and experience.

Basically, I'm building the AB763 circuit and staying as close to original as current values and quality of components will allow. However, I'm not necessarily sold on having it sound EXACTLY like a '65 so that's where my question on speaker brands comes in. It originally came with an Oxford speaker, I've thought on buying either a Weber, Jensen repro, or go with one of the new Eminence models (they have a number of different ones now). However has anyone out there substituted a british made speaker say a celestion, in a Fender? And if so what did it sound like? Also, anyone do roughly the same build I'm working on and what did you go with and how do you think it sounds?

Thanks for any words.
-David

[Earl Norton]

What do you need in clean headroom? If you need a real efficient speaker, your choices become fewer without having to consider subjective measurements. (might make it easier.)

[weeping6]

Well that's why I asked the question, I wanted some information on all fronts. Which speakers color in certain ways and what are those ways, which stay clean, which are truest to the vintage year they're designed after, what changes in tonal quality are present in new speakers made from high quality manufacturers, tube type + speaker type tonal blends, etc.

Thanks.
-David

[Earl Norton]

I prefer lots of options and the fewest limitations with my amps. It's personal preference but I like the JBL d120f for a delux type amp, it delivers lots of spls per watt and that might come in handy. It is a bit brighter than most (due to the metal dust cap) but I think you can tame it on the front end or not, as you prefer. Old style ALNICO mag jenson's will sound good for certain applications, but then limit you in others and not deliver the head room.

Other high spl speakers from EV and Eminence and weber will deliver the head room but be somewhat darker.

Some players rave over speaker breakup but I think it sounds like a blown speaker and is generally not controllable as is preamp and power amp overdrive. MHO.

[weeping6]

I agree with you regarding speaker breakup. I'd prefer to rely on the amp circuit for any type of OD rather than running my speaker hard. One time I read an article on Kenny Wayne Shepherd, he apparently uses big EVs in his Fenders so that he can avoid any speaker break up when he's got the amp cranked to 10. I've seen him live several times and man his sound is killer!

I just recently built an EL84 based amp that I wanted to OD quick but still maintain a solid bottom end. I built the cab as well and closed the back up except for one hole in the back with a length that went from the first tube to the last tube. The speaker I chose was an Eminence Legend 12". In the end the sound is very bright when the treble of the amp is full on but the bass gets a little grumbly up past ~2:00. I'm not sure if that's b/c I need more PS capacitance or the close-backed cab or both but I really like how bright the whole system is. With a single coil equiped strat is sounds really good.

I think what I would be looking for is something that could handle tight low end and have enough highs to be just a little too much then I could just back the high end off w/ the tone controls of the amp.

-David

[Thorny]

If you want it to sound like a great blackface deluxe reverb should sound I suggest the weber 12F150 - it is very close to a vintage Jensen C12N and has traditional blackface tone - maybe a bit better efficiency and bottom end but it does not sound boomy. I have used them for years to replace the oxfarts as the have a tendency to crap out.

The alnico version sounds great too, but compresses a bit more in my opinion (12A150). Not a bad thing at all, it actually sounds great. But it does cost a lot more.

Stay away from the current Italian Jensen C12Ns as the one I had did not distort in a pleasing way. It was VERY efficient - it was extremely loud. But it would not distort until it was extremely loud - and when it did distort it was harsh in my opinion. I have heard others say they really like it - but I sure didn't.

I am sure you can get many other speakers that will do a reasonable job. But I have had great experiences with the weber 12F150. I think a weber signature 12B would sound great too if you are on a budget - I have had good experience with that one as well.

[stokes]

I'm with Thorny on the Weber 12F150.Got one in a 5E3 and it is very tight.I found the Jensen very harsh.Also had a 10" Jensen in another amp and found it to be harsh also.If you email Ted at Weber he will give you his thoughts on how his different speakers will perform in your situation,he is very helpful.

[weeping6]

Ahh, you've got me salivating over this Weber speaker. I've heard great things about them and have seen a number of them in the boutique-ish amps of today. Yeah, the extra bottom ends sounds really attractive. That's what I want is something with a noticeable amount of bottom end that is tight but doesn't sound muffled so that means clear on the higher frequencies as well.

To Stokes: good suggestion on emailing Weber. I had thought about doing that and I think I will. Thanks.

-David

[hasserl]

I agree with Thorny and Stokes about the Weber 12F150. For the traditional BF Fender tone, that is the speaker to go with.

If however you want to do something different I would suggest you try the Eminence Tonker. It is a British flavored speaker, but it is not very aggresive, much less so than the 12F150 mentioned. It will not breakup, even when pushed hard. It holds together very nicely with a good tight bottom end. And when it comes to clean tone the Tonker is king, there is no better speaker for clean tone than a Tonker, absolutely gorgeous, and sparkly, beautiful. It's not the traditional bf sound, but it is really, really good. I highly recommend it.

[Bruce / Mission Amps]

Just my opinion but the finest sounding Deluxe Reverb amps I've heard, frequently have reissue Celestion G12H30s in them.
Just a great speaker.
A second choice would be the MOJO BV30H, which is an American made speaker using the same basket and Kurt-Mueller cone that Celestion uses in the G12H30 but I'm told the voice coil is wound here in the USA.
And, like I said, it is built here in the USA on the East Coast.
The WeberVST 12F150 is a very good speaker too but it has been my experience WeberVST speakers take quite a while to loosen up and blossom, especially when used in a 20 watt amp like a Deluxe Reverb... the MOJO BV30H sounds great right out of the box and hard to beat for $83.00.

[bob p]

I'd like to second two of the opinions that have already been offered -- first, Bruce is spon-on aout the G12H30 70th Anniversary reissue sounding great with a BF Deluxe. Although a lot of people don't like celestions in fender amps, its bottom end is nice and tight and it doesn't display the flabbiness in bass response that's so common with the speakers that normally go into little fender amps. Overall, the response of that speaker is very smooth, it has nice tight bass, and it doesn't have the annoyong icepick midrange hump that so many celestions (like the V30) are famous for. Although its not a speaker that would immediately come to mind when we're thinking Deluxe, its definitely a speaker worth considering.

The other thing I'd like to say is that hasserl is right about the Tonker. Its a surprisingly good stay-clean speaker, and when paired with a little 6L6 amp like a Vibrolux and a Telecaster, its truly impressive -- you really get to hear the power tubes barking. Another eminence to consider if you'd like a more american clean tone is the Red White and Blue. Personally, I'm a big fan of the EVM speakers paired up with 6L6 Fender amps for the SRV and Shepherd types of tones, but the Tonker and the RWB are worth looking into as they could get you into the same zone at a much lower cost.

All things considered, this is a great time to be looking for speakers. You have lots of choices available. Have fun.

[Chris / CMW amps]

Celestion G12H30 (ann.), like bob p said regarding the sound and also pretty efficient for more (clean) volume.

Altough I probably will use an Celestion Alnico Gold (50 W) if wanted/needed, a buddy just replaced the H30 in a CMW DR replica with a Celestion Alnico Blue (15 W). He really likes the details in the midrange.

[Bruce / Mission Amps]

I have not heard it yet and don't personally know anyone who has tried the Celestion AlNiCo Gold yet but other have told me it is all hype and not the speaker they thought it would be... all rumors to me now though.

[bob p]

I have not heard it yet and don't personally know anyone who has tried the Celestion AlNiCo Gold yet but other have told me it is all hype and not the speaker they thought it would be... all rumors to me now though.

I haven't heard it yet either, and I'm also looking forward to hearing whther the Gold has the goods or whether its just marketing hype. Lots of people have tried to make higher powered AlNiCo speakers, but they've all ended up sounding different from a low-powered speaker like the original Jensens or the Celestion Blue.

Bruce, have you heard the Eminence Red Fang? I haven't heard it in person, I've only read about it. If you have personal experience, I'd love to hear it. Thanks.

[TD_Madden]

I'm using a RedFang in a 6L6'd Mission Tweedy (upgraded OT). Sounds really good, but have to use the small-bottle 6L6s due to clearance problems in that amp. Should work (and fit) just fine in a DR.