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Phase inverter question...

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  • #16
    Originally posted by The Dude View Post
    Of course it's purely semantics.
    Yes.
    Much of what I said about avoiding confusion is also about consistency. I can't speak about other's education/training, but in my background it was hammered in that AC 'has no polarity', even at times stated as a fundamental difference between AC and DC. Rightly or wrongly, as I fully understand that AC has relative polarity and is constantly reversing.
    But to be consistent, we call it 'flipping phase'.
    When someone says they wired up a speaker cab and the bass is lacking, we say 'maybe the speakers are out of phase'. When someone's amp build (or OT replacement) is howling we tell them the OT may have it's phase reversed, giving positive feedback instead of NFB.

    In my opinion the use of the term 'splitter' is more problematic. If we always said 'inverter' it is clear whether we call it phase or polarity. How do you 'split' phase?

    Originally posted by Enzo
    I have a sign in my shop that says, "Never think up reasons not to check something."


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    • #17
      This is fun. Now let's discuss vibrato vs tremolo.
      --
      I build and repair guitar amps
      http://amps.monkeymatic.com

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      • #18
        Originally posted by xtian View Post
        This is fun. Now let's discuss vibrato vs tremolo.
        That's simple (but doesn't belong here):

        By definition vibrato means frequency (or pitch if you like) modulation and tremolo means amplitude (or level) modulation.

        Especially Fender often confused the terms.
        - Own Opinions Only -

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        • #19
          Originally posted by g1 View Post
          In my opinion the use of the term 'splitter' is more problematic. If we always said 'inverter' it is clear whether we call it phase or polarity. How do you 'split' phase?
          Agree and corrected my proposal above into "signal polarity inverter" .

          But any (grounded cathode) gain stage could also be called a "phase/polarity inverter".
          What is missing is that a PI provides two opposite phase/polarity output signals, so somehow splits the signal into two (hence phase splitter?).

          Phase splitter is an English term that has no correspondence in German.
          Our "Phasenumkehrstufe" directly translates into phase inverter stage.

          I still think that "phase inverter" is somewhat problematic.
          What exactly does phase mean here?
          I think the term is ambiguous.

          I studied some maths (2 years) and learned that phase is the argument of a trigonometric function (sine, cosine etc.)
          So for a continuous signal the phase constantly increases with time..

          Above I showed that reversing the phase of a sine also reverses polarity.
          But that doesn't always hold, e.g. reversing the phase of a cosine does not reverse polarity as cos(-x) = cos(x).
          So I think "polarity inverter" would be more explicit.

          It's just my humble personal opinion, so be cool.

          I do like to encourage posters to think out of the box.
          Last edited by Helmholtz; 12-01-2022, 09:37 PM.
          - Own Opinions Only -

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Helmholtz View Post

            That's simple (but doesn't belong here):

            By definition vibrato means frequency (or pitch if you like) modulation and tremolo means amplitude (or level) modulation.

            Especially Fender often confused the terms.
            I think he was joking at the hair splitting that's going on in the thread. I could be wrong.
            Last edited by The Dude; 11-30-2022, 11:07 PM.
            "I took a photo of my ohm meter... It didn't help." Enzo 8/20/22

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Greg_L View Post
              A friend of mine shared with me some really bad, obviously A.I. written "articles", and one of them was about phase inverters.
              This is hilarious, hold on to your seat...
              https://www.fuelrocks.com/what-is-a-...er-guitar-amp/
              I wish I could get paid to write the same sentence (whether or not it is accurate or makes any sense) over and over again...
              If it still won't get loud enough, it's probably broken. - Steve Conner
              If the thing works, stop fixing it. - Enzo
              We need more chaos in music, in art... I'm here to make it. - Justin Thomas
              MANY things in human experience can be easily differentiated, yet *impossible* to express as a measurement. - Juan Fahey

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Greg_L View Post
                ......A friend of mine shared with me some really bad, obviously A.I. written "articles", and one of them was about phase inverters.
                This is hilarious, hold on to your seat...
                https://www.fuelrocks.com/what-is-a-...er-guitar-amp/......
                Click image for larger version

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                That is some funny shi+!

                "I took a photo of my ohm meter... It didn't help." Enzo 8/20/22

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Helmholtz View Post
                  Our "Phasenumkehrstufe" directly translates into phase inverter.
                  I was meaning to ask what the German term was. I thought it would be bigger.
                  Originally posted by Enzo
                  I have a sign in my shop that says, "Never think up reasons not to check something."


                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Greg_L View Post
                    A friend of mine shared with me some really bad, obviously A.I. written "articles", and one of them was about phase inverters.
                    This is hilarious, hold on to your seat...
                    https://www.fuelrocks.com/what-is-a-...er-guitar-amp/
                    I'm pretty sure this says that we can power our homes (or business) by playing guitar. Just as I suspected.

                    Originally posted by Enzo
                    I have a sign in my shop that says, "Never think up reasons not to check something."


                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by eschertron View Post

                      I wish I could get paid to write the same sentence (whether or not it is accurate or makes any sense) over and over again...
                      I don't think you have to pay bots!

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by g1 View Post
                        I'm pretty sure this says that we can power our homes (or business) by playing guitar. Just as I suspected.
                        I'm sitting in a room with eight 50 and 100w Marshall heads. If I could turn their sound energy into electrical energy they probably could run my house.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by g1 View Post
                          I was meaning to ask what the German term was. I thought it would be bigger.
                          What's funny with your wrong assumption?

                          (Phasen= phase, -umkehr = inverter, -stufe = stage-).
                          - Own Opinions Only -

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                          • #28
                            Technical terms in German often seem to be quite long. eg multi language manuals sometimes need more pages for the German section than English etc.
                            My band:- http://www.youtube.com/user/RedwingBand

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by pdf64 View Post
                              Technical terms in German often seem to be quite long. eg multi language manuals sometimes need more pages for the German section than English etc.
                              Yes, English is simpler and shorter. Good for me as it makes learning English easy .
                              Last edited by Helmholtz; 12-01-2022, 05:08 PM.
                              - Own Opinions Only -

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by pdf64 View Post
                                Technical terms in German often seem to be quite long. eg multi language manuals sometimes need more pages for the German section than English etc.
                                That's what I meant. Helmholtz the German term you gave has the same number of syllables as the English term. That surprised me a bit. I think German terminology is usually much more descriptive and exacting. My Dad can speak it but I don't. He sometimes jokes about very long words that are translations for shorter English versions.
                                Originally posted by Enzo
                                I have a sign in my shop that says, "Never think up reasons not to check something."


                                Comment

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