First time build

[teamo]

Hi,
I'm thinking of taking on my first build. I know that it is recommended that a first time build should begin with a simple model like a champ but I have limited funds and probably won't have enough to do a future build for a few years. I would really like to do a Deluxe Reverb build. I have pretty good soldering skills but limited knowledge of all of the ins and outs of tube circuits. I have a good electrical background and a little electronics background. I can understand a schematic diagram for the most part. I have been reading up on tube circuits and I will do some more research before taking on something like this. I was thinking of maybe one of the Weber kits. Would this be something that could be built for a first time build? Thanks.

[txstrat]

Sounds like you really know what you like to go for.
If you keep track of the safety (lethal voltages etc.) I don't see problems ahead when you build a DR rather than a Champ.
OK the DR is a push pull amp and the champ is single ended, but if you follow the instructions of "your" kit carefully that should be no big deal.

[Sir Cuitous]

Since you have more time than funds, I would recommend studying more before deciding. In a year's time I have spent time devouring all that I can read - even schematics of amps I may never build. At first it was daunting, but it did sink in after a time. As far as choice of first projects, a tweed Deluxe might be a good middle ground between Champ and Deluxe Reverb. I would also add that any info on the practical side of actually laying out and constructing an amp is as important as the theory and the circuit.

[black_labb]

you could always simplify the circuit and leave room in the chassis to do the rest of the amp. maybe just do the amp withut the reverm section, and once you get it working add the reverb onto it.

[cminor9]

txstrat is right, you can build a deluxe reverb and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Here's the thing, though: given enough prep work, you could probably complete a 5E3 fairly quickly. A BFDR, though...well, you might run into some trouble that'll make you pull your hair out. I'd think it'd be pretty frustrating and discouraging to have your first build take forever to come together. If build amps is frustrating what's the point? It's not much cheaper if at all than just going and buying one, so you had better be having fun.

Another thing to consider: save the amp you *really* want for your second or third build. I built a 5E3 as my first amp and now that I have learned a lot more, I constantly think of the things I could have or should have done differently. It sounds wonderful, but in some respects it could be better built. And you won't know those things going into your first build. You just won't. Yeah, I think my 5E3 sounds awesome and looks pretty good. But the 6G3 on my bench is going to be heads and shoulders above it in terms of build quality once I finish it.

And Sir Cuitious nailed it: layout is absolutely positively critical. You need some experience to make use of the helpful info you find on forums like this one. It's amazing, you just don't get it until you've done it.

YMMV, but these are things I have learned over the past year and a half since I got started in this.

[olddawg]

Here is my suggestion..... How about a conversion project? Pick up an old hammand organ amp chassis or something cheap that takes EL84s or 6V6s. If you have the iron and the chassis it is not that expensive to build a board. You can build an 18 watt lite Marshall clone for under $100 that way if you are frugal. A guy on the 18 watt.com site was bragging recently that he built one for a total cost of $60. I have an 18 watt VTB clone that I built on a new chassis with recycled iron and everything else new for less than $200. Look around at garage sales, thrift stores, ebay, and the local Craig's list for usable stuff and collect used parts. I even got a very usable pair of 12" CTS speakers out of an old stereo console that was going to the dump a while back. If you don't want to spent the money on a turrent board use perf board. I have found naked areas in junk TV boards that were large enough for a build board. Cut it out with a jig saw and drill some holes. Probably your biggest expense will be on new electrolytics and tubes, but many times you can get exceptional tubes in an old junk chassis for next to nothing. If you truly have more time than money and are creative, there is a lot you can do and a lot you can learn with very little investment.

[loudthud]

Those Weber kits are no piece of cake. Read his disclaimer. One thing you don't get is a picture of what it is supposed to look like when you are done. There is a diagram showing all the wires but it takes experience to know how to install them neatly. Plan on buying some extra wire and a good wire stripper. You may have to drill some holes in the chassis and make minor adjustments to make things fit.

[teamo]

Thanks everyone for the quick replies. From what I've been reading on various posts the difficult thing seems to be the layout. Would it simplify things and make the first time build more of a success if I bought a pre made board like a Hoffman board and bought a seperated cabinet, chassis, speaker, transformers, reverb tank, etc? There are lots of pictures on the internet of chassis layout pictures of the Deluxe that would probably be useful for me.

[zhyla]

Looking over a Deluxe Reverb schematic it seems to me that if you cut out the vibrato channel and the reverb you'd have a very doable beginner's push-pull circuit. If you do your layout right and don't paint yourself into a corner you would then be able to add in the other parts once you have the basic amp working. You've got to put a lot of thought into it up front - nothing is more frustrating than realizing you need to take a working amp apart and rebuild it.

The problem here is to do a good layout you sort of need to screw up a layout first. Or maybe that's just me. You can look at how Fender laid it out and follow that as a start.

For cost reduction nothing beats converting an old organ amp (or whatever you find on ebay). But I don't know if I'd recommend it for a first build. The first time around you want everything to work as long as you don't screw it up. When you scrounge old parts you don't have that security.

[andrew_k]

Like you I didn't want to build a 5watter for my first, especially because I already have a SF vibrochamp!

The one I went with is the 6G2 brownface Princeton in head form. Simpler than a blackface Princeton or deluxe, cleaner sound than a tweed. If you absolutely must have reverb, there is a simple and popular 1 tube reverb circuit on the Hoffman forums that has been proven in a variety of amps. If something like a 6G2 or 6G3 isn't clean enough for you, there is a Hoffman project of a single channel BFDR, similar to the Weber kit. So long as you take the time to study and understand each portion of the circuit, I don't see any reason you couldn't build a BFDR as your first amp. You seem to have the right attitude towards it, so as long as enthusiasm doesn't get the best of you, you should be fine

Conversion will save money but add a boatload of layout complexity in my very limited experience. My 6G2 is built into a tiny bakelite radio and I spent considerably more time planning how everything would fit in the chassis than I did building the amp. Just because a chassis already has tube socket holes doesn't mean they will be in good spots for any build. For example in mine the vibrato oscillator was badly bleeding in the signal and I ended it up taking it to a tech to sort out. Similarly, I have a Fender Reverb unit build started using the chassis and iron from a trashed tube radio and once again preparing a layout has taken a lot of time and attention.

[Five_E35]

IMO, having just finished an 5E3, you learn as much about what's wrong with Weber kits, as building amps. Don't expect it to sound like the real thing, unless you upgrade virtually all of the parts, but as a basis for mods it may be fine. For a BF kit, take a look at the Marsh Amplifiers version, which appears to be based on the Mojo kit with more options and instructions, but look for some reviews as I have no personal experience. Another option would be a Turretboards PtP eyelet board in a RI with all the right parts and an upgraded output transformer. Contrary to urban myth, the RI's parts quality is better than Weber.

IMHO working on a BF is easier than a tweed, you're not doing everything buried down in that narrow trench. I wonder if Leo re-designed his amps because the Mexican ladies who built them threatened to quit.

[teamo]

I did a search on Marsh amps and the reviews look pretty positive. I am open to doing the 5E3 (Tweed Deluxe?) but if I'm not mistaken that amp has no reverb. I really would like to do something with reverb if it is something that I can handle. I have looked at many different kits online and it seems everyday someone mentions another one that is out there that looks good. Does anyone have any ideas/experience about which kits might supply better parts individually? Not necessarily one full kit but maybe company "A" has the best chassis, company "B" has the best cabinets, company "C" has the best boards/ electronic parts, etc.