Wanting to build a bass amp from scratch

[bb5000]

I've actually been debating that weber kit. Do you know anyone who has built that kit?

I built it in Feb 2010, the transformers for that kit has been out of stock since spring 2010...

Total cost incl shipment, customs fee and taxes was ~1500 $, it's a nice, loud amp though.

Some pics:

Weber AB200 - a set on Flickr

[J M Fahey]

I think *most* of the problem you have now is that it's a *combo*.
I'd suggest: buy an old trusty classic analog power amp, a Peavey CS400 or CS800 comes to mind (will cost peanuts), drive it with the line out from your combo (which you'll keep as preamp and monitor) and drive 2 2x15" , small fridge sized cabinets and/or a couple 4x10" cabinets.
*Everybody* will hate you. (Yes, sometimes that's a good thing).
Have the DDT compression *always* on, what you don't want is an SS amp clipping even a little bit.
JM2C
EDIT: not to forget that you can be playing with such a system in a week, while building an SVT clone can take long months (and mucho $$$$$$)

[Marc R]

If you decide you have an inexpensive solid state budget but want tubelike tone, try the tech 21 sans amp. I play through a mesa 400+ most of the time and when I played through a sansamp into an ampeg digital piece I was blown away. Bought it on the spot. I now set my basic tone of the amp and tweek it with the pedal. I am in love with the thing.

[Steve Conner]

I think this is a good generic point about tube vs. solid state. You can get the same results, if you deliberately add distortion and EQ to the solid-state rig to mimic the tube amp's distortion and low damping factor. Which is basically what the Sansamp is doing above.

I've tried playing bass through completely clean, high-powered amps and hated it, there was no feel whatsoever. Even a simple JFET preamp, set to distort a tiny bit, made a big difference.

If using solid-state, I think pounds weight is a fairer comparison to tube amps than claimed wattage. A 50lb solid state amp will wipe the floor with a 50lb tube one. Class-D power stages, switchmode power supplies and so on, should only make things better, but I suspect they are often let down by cost-cutting design in practice. It takes quite a serious switcher to equal the transient power delivery of those beer-can-sized filter caps in a big old Peavey CS series.

I used to like playing gigs with a lowish powered tube bass amp, but sound guys all thought it was too dirty. They like every instrument to sit in its own frequency band and sound like what a sound guy thinks it should. I think the problem is that I started out as a guitarist and am expecting my bass riffage to be audible. :-)

[jmaf]

Tube amps are a zebra and class D amps are a horse. Everybody likes zebras. Horses are made to be light, to race and carry things. You may or may not like horses. They don't spit like Llamas but they kickback like a circular saw. You can't wipe the floor with a zebra, it's just not right.

[mooreamps]

I agree the Weber kits are a class act.... Personally, I am still seeing great wisdom when I look at prints like the 5f6-a...


-g

[Chuck H]

I agree the Weber kits are a class act.... Personally, I am still seeing great wisdom when I look at prints like the 5f6-a...


-g

+1
I certainly know the schematic well enough that I could likely draw it from memory. But 'just in case I've missed some subtle detail'. Some of the classics certainly have "mojo". Whether that's because they're the tones that our ears are trained to hear or because they actually make the tones our ears want to hear doesn't even matter. Those old amps weren't even made for the sort of use they are known for most often. So we study them to learn what makes for these happy accidents that resulted in the right wave form.

[mooreamps]

It's ah,,,, it's just a lot in the small details.. The type of tubes used, the simple layout, ect... I go looking at some of these "Dumble" style clones, and mostly what I see is the Fender Twin layout...

-g

[Chuck H]

It's ah,,,, it's just a lot in the small details.. The type of tubes used, the simple layout, ect... I go looking at some of these "Dumble" style clones, and mostly what I see is the Fender Twin layout...

-g

Oh yeah. Even the infamous TW Express/Liverpool is not dissimilar from the reverb channel of a BF Fender amp. But as you say, it's the small details. Taking these designs that already have some "mojo" and refining them for the way we misuse them for contemporary purposes is what we as amp designers do. And we often do it without having recognised all the relative goodness of the original designs. Maybe that's why there are so many boutique cloners that make reverse engineered amps based on the older designs.?. It's just a lot of fun to be in the game.

[olddawg]

You don't need an SVT unless you're paying stadiums or outdoors IMHO. You don't need it even then with a DI box. For clubs, 30 watts (even less) for guitar and 100 to 150 watts for bass is common. Even that can drive people out of the room. A lot of people will use a 300 watt SS amp and turn it down and use a compressor. I always tell people to practice how you will play and develop a good stage balance at the lowest volume you can and sound the way you want. Let the sound crew do the rest. You might even hear the monitors. Maybe I'm getting old, but if I walk into a small club and see a couple of 100 watt JCM800 stacks (and l love to play them myself in the right venues) and an SVT I usually leave the building because I know it will be painful.

[Steve Conner]

Sure. Part of being a good electric musician is understanding stage volume and using it as a tool, not just getting carried away in it. The roaring Marshall stack is often best understood as a relic from before modern PA systems were invented.

It's part of being a good drummer too. I've known some drummers that you could happily jam along with using a Champ, and others who were permanently stuck on 11 and needed a half stack and earplugs to even hear what you were playing.

Guess which I would invite to the coffee shop gig, except the guys with volume controls are always too busy with other gigs, I wonder why

[mooreamps]

Steve, as a drummer I can tell you it's not easy to play quietly... and even then when the adrenaline starts pumping, I'd not easy to keep the volume down... On the other hand, as an old dog like me, in my day we would play loud, and proud...... Just not understanding any of this "bedroom" electronics.... I personally keep a set of DW's here in my office with my very vintage 15 inch QuickBeats, and I've not heard any complaints yet ????

-g

[J M Fahey]

Problem is, drummers *are* loud, even using "a light hand".
It *is* percussion, meaning you hit your instrument in order to play.
Not much you can do about that, except maybe putting flannels over cymbals and drumheads, dropping some old pullover inside the floor drum and stuff like that.
Or use an electronic drum set, where you only hit rubber pads, and the electronics include a volume pot.
Because you do not have a built in one in your chest or forehead.

Problem is, asking the drummer to play soft, makes him sound bland and boneless.
Oh well.

[Chuck H]

I hate a boneless drummer. A properly schooled guitar player should be able to step up with appropriate gear as needed. Usually a good 20W amp and a good 50W amp are all that is needed. Maybe a 100W for outdoor venues. I just roll with the 20W and use a line out or a mic on the speaker through the PA. I definitely have sympathy for drummers. But since I prefere to play loud it works in my favor

[GregS]

Problem is, drummers *are* loud, even using "a light hand".
It *is* percussion, meaning you hit your instrument in order to play.
Not much you can do about that, except maybe putting flannels over cymbals and drumheads, dropping some old pullover inside the floor drum and stuff like that.
Or use an electronic drum set, where you only hit rubber pads, and the electronics include a volume pot.
Because you do not have a built in one in your chest or forehead.

Problem is, asking the drummer to play soft, makes him sound bland and boneless.
Oh well.

Agreed, the drums are always loud unless the drummer is playing really soft like you say or doing other stuff to muffle them. However they go from simply loud to extremely loud depending on how hard the drummer hits. I understand what Steve is talking about having played with drummers that can hit really hard that play full out all the time and drown everything else out. I've also played with drummers that play with good dynamics - are really loud when the situation calls for it and back off to moderately loud when required without having to feather them.