Calling All Shop Owners/Amp Techs...

[EETStudent]

Hello all. My name is Danny Morris, 24 yr old graduating EET student and aspiring amp tech/shop owner. I would really like to get some advice from some experienced shop owners and builders on how you got started. Feel free to cover all bases from learning and experience, to finances, marketing, and any other tidbits of information that apply.

Of course, my main challenge right now is getting off the ground. I am confident in my skill set, knowledge, and passion for tube amps, specifically vintage models and their history. I am not confident that I am even remotely close to being prepared to market myself. I've done projects for myself and close acquaintances out of my apartment, but thats not something I want to advertise.

Any advice and experiences that are sharable would be GREATLY appreciated. Thanks

[Enzo]

Well ther have been a number of discussions of exactly this in the Music Electronics section. people wanting to get into it, people already in it trying to grow, people trying not to grow in areas they don't want, people shopping for gear, people wondering about clerical/business/ legal issues, hiring techs, not hiring techs, concentrating on specifics or broadening the work range. And so on. And the ever popular griping about customers, which actually can be quite informative to a novice shop owner.

I usually recommend searching, but the thread titles would be all over the map. I suggest getting a fresh beverage and just reading down page after page of thread titles in that section.

We sometimes sprinkle those discussions into the repair section, but mostly in the Music Electronics section.


It is one thing to love vintage tube amps, it is yet quite another to run a repair shop. If you plan to make a living off vintage tube amps, you need probably to draw way beyond your own community, if you want any repair volume. Bread and butter repairs are going to be more entry level stuff. Replace broken jacks and controls in Peavey, Crate, and Fender amps, and a whole lot of them will be solid state. And even the guuy with a vintage Fender probably has solid state distortion pedals and maybe rack effects. What you want to be his band also uses a PA system? No tubes there. And while you may want to be a specialist, chances are good the guy across town who fixes PA gear also fixes tube amps, so how many customers woukld use both shops?



I am not an amp fan myself. Oh I like amps, but I am not one of these guys who can tell you how many grooves there are around a Fender volume knob, and what year the number changed. I don;t care how many grooves there are. I fix amps. I can;t tell you what year each version of what model was made. I don;t remember the year CBS took over, nor who the designer was. Or what years Ampeg made the B15N. I call the folks wno know all that fans, just like sports fans. SOme guys like to watch the game, some guys have to know all the stats for the last 50 years. I have nothing at all against amp fans, I just am not one. There is an excelent store across town, Elderly Instruments, and if someone wants to know what their amp is worth, or more things like that, see them, that is what they are good at. I fix amps, and a bad filter cap is a bad filter cap, regardless of the amp being made in 1957 or 1975.

What am I yammering about? Well, if you are an amp fan, more power to you, you can chat with the guys about that. But don;t confuse that with repair and maintenence of the gear. Because at the end of the day, what you did to make a living was the repair work, unless your thing is to horse trade amps.



SO check out those older threads and see what questions remain, and over in that section would be the place to post.

Good luck.

[mooreamps]

I would not try to run a repair shop... But, that's just me... Maybe after I retire and want something to do... It's a lot of hard work, and you really have to be fast in making repairs and getting the work out the door..

-g

[Gibsonman63]

I dabble a little part time, mainly building amps for myself and repairing amps for friends that gig a lot. I am really fond of the old Fenders and Marshalls, but most of what I see (other than my own amps) are Fender Hot Rod Deluxes, Crate Classic 30's, newer Mesa Boogies and things like that. The vintage stuff is great to work on. I can have a vintage Fender out of the cabinet and ready to troubleshoot in about three minutes. Most of the newer amps will take 20 minutes or more just to get it where you can work on it.

Competition is pretty tough for the amp builders. You can buy complete hand built amps on the amp builder forums for a little less than what you would pay for parts and many times very good quality because there's lots of guys who like to build amps, and they will sell thier old builds to fund the next build.

If you really want to get into repairs, it would be worth working for someone else for a while to learn the business side of things.

As a hobby, I make the most money buying used gear that needs repair, fixing it, then selling it again.

[olddawg]

It isn't like the old days. Most electronics are cheap, disposable, and quickly obsolete. Most stuff is replaced rather than repaired. That said, if you can find a nich it is still possible to make a living. But don't expect that nich to last. We always used to say that everyone in our shop had something wrong with them: alcoholic, personality disorder, drug addict, hiding from the law or an ex-wife, etc. Because.... with the knowlege and skill set it took to do what we did you could make much more money with less aggravation doing something else for a major corporation or the government with benefits and retirement. Back in the day it was great for me. I was a better than good bench tech, if I went on tour with a band there was always a job waiting for me. If I wasn't in a band I would work 9 months or so and goof off for 3 months in Europe or something until I ran out of money. There was always a job waiting for a good tech. But the world changes and your eyes get old. The chemicals and metals catch up with you too.

[Chuck H]

+1 to all (especially about your bread and butter and how occupational hazzards catch up with you)

I started out modding amps because I was chasing tones in my head. I ended up designing amps (some twenty years later). I've even done a little design and consultation work with Dean Markley. And may yet work with him again. Though it hardly counts. We're practically pals at this point. I am certainly no EE. And I'm really just a bedroom builder, BUT, I'm prety good with my cross referencing skills, trouble shooting and diagnostics. Call it a byproduct of a lower middle class youth. I had to fix all my own shit and make some of it too if I hoped to control my environment. Don't confuse this with rising above my circumstances. Quite the opposite. All I've managed is to facilitate my continued existence in this lifestyle to which I've acclimated. OK, Enough sobbing. Point is you need to earn a living. If you want to repair amps and sell builds until (and if) one of your designs achieves notoriety, it sounds like you have the skills to give it an honestly good run. But there's no guarantees. Not unlike being a good guitar player and hoping for a break but still living with your parents. Your young. Your on the path to developing technical skills that could secure your future. If you decide to be a working class "Joe" with a vague "shot" at a happy ending that's up to you. Now...

I'm a painting contractor. My company is all me. I'm the labor, book keeper, administrator, bidder, schmuck that cleans the tools at the end of the day, etc. Sometimes I need to power wash slippery steep pitch roofs in near freezing weather. I'm considering going into amp repair because I'm fourty three and I have bad tendons and repetitive motion disorders. If I don't make a change I may find myself broken and unemployed! If I were young and unattached with an ongoing possibility for education, planning and preparation I probably wouldn't be too quick setting myself up in instrument amplifier repair. NOW...

Considering that it CAN generate a livable wage, and like any business the only ceiling is how far your willing to expand, it's probably not any worse than being a painting contractor. So take whatever I say with a grain of salt. But if I had my druthers I might have been more careful.

IMHE 99% of the guys I've met that design or just build tube guitar amps for sale make their living wage repairing all manor of gear, most of it solid state, for a livable wage no better than mine. And one more BUT...

Nothing ventured, nothing gained. All the great ones came from somewhere.

Just food for thought. You'll take what you want from it and set your own priorities.

And PS... Just to contribute to the actual subject matter, running a repair business requires organization. Along with a little organization. And then add some organization. Keep these three things in mind.

[jmaf]

I owned a repair shop since 2005 and I left in 2010, my former partner is still running it. It's very hard work to make it profitable and since you do many small services, you've got to have discipline and be kinda hard on musicians sometimes to be able to make a profit. Otherwise you may end up spending your income to pay for lunch, and spending your day chatting about stuff.

There's a natural impedance mismatch between the "electrical fixer guy" and musicians, you'll soon learn to deal with that in a positive way. After all, the reason you join this bunch is to have fun and do what you like in life.

If you just wanted to be rich without doing anything productive or fun you'd be a useless banker type in wall street.

As for custom builds, there's a misconception out there that hand made amps are meant to make famous models cheaper. The reason you make an amplifier by hand is to have something unique, not recreate a cheaper Marshall JCM 800 - basically about two times a day someone would walk in and ask what it cost to make the cheapest JCM 800 preamp possible, just like that. So people wanted amplifiers for pennies. We built some but that doesn't pay bills if you're not making a good profit margin, it's a lot of work, giving a warranty, etc.

In between hard work and paying bills you do find the occasional pearl.

We fixed BB King's amplifer just 3 hours before he hit the stage with it, that was the most memorable day at our shop. It's something I'll tell my grandchildren. The guys downtown making 200 times more money than I will never know what it feels like to play on the King's amplifier. (On my avatar picture that's BB King's L5 on the floor, maybe too small too see.)

Good luck and I hope you're successful in this most awesome field.

[Enzo]

Good points. There is a difference between fixing things and running a business. As soon as it is making your living, it ceases to be piddling around in the basement with your amp. You can stil enjoy the work, but it isn;t a hobby anymore.

One thing about running a shop is the incremental way in which you get your income. Most of us go through life getting a paycheck. Every week or two you get a relatively large amount of money from someone, in exchange for showing up and doing your job. If you make $800 a week, that is $20 an hour, but chances are you don;t work a half hour and think, gee I just made $10.

But in the repair game, the little things add up. DOn;t dismiss a cheap little nothing $20 repair, that is the same as an hour's pay for the paycheck guy. Those small amounts add up. ANy individual one may not seem so important, but the total of them at the end of the week is what pays the rent or falls short. Ask the $800 guy which hours he doesn;t want to get paid for. You have to pay attention and charge the small stuff. Ah, it's just a fuse... yeah well, that fuse cost you 50 cents to a dollar. Throw away one a week, and it cost you $25-50 each year.

There are fat invoices, I just had a $330 repair picked up earlier this evening. But those are the exceptions. A lot more of my repairs are broken jacks and such.


It can be a real adjustment to think that way, to keep in mind that all the little things add up to your pay check. I appreciate what waitresses go through, and I know if they thought about it they'd appreciate my situation. They have to think in adding up small amounts all day, rather than here's what I make a week in a paycheck.

You also have to think about costs. OH boy, I just sold a quad of power tubes. I got $80. Great shooting, kid. Don;t get cocky. That $80 sale cost me $50-60 plus shipping, just to be on my shelf. And my shelf doesn't pay intrest. And stocking other parts: small resistors are a penny or two in 100 lot. $1.25 maybe, and I have 100 220k resistors. Not a lot. But if I stock 100 values of resistor, there is over $100 right there. I can sort them into paper envelopes and stack them in a shoebox for next to nothing. But if I want to make them more assceeible, then I need plastic drawer bins. Priced the 60 drawer ones lately? Need a couple for resistors, several for caps, lots for semiconductors (transistors, diodes, analog ICs, Vregs, CMOS logic, TTL logic), pots, fuses, fuse holders, screws, jacks, etc. Easy to tie up thousands of dollars in parts inventory.

[Chuck H]

When I did paint sprayer repair I hired on with a shop that had the most extensive inventory of parts I've ever seen to this day. Leftovers from the guy I replaced. NONE of them were consideren part of the regular inventory. So anytime a part was ordered you had to have a PO and you had to reference the PO to the sale. Just identifying the parts was nearly impossible when all you had was a plastic bag with an odd shaped metal or rubber thingy inside and some obscure part number hand written on it. If I needed a part for a repair there wasn't even a way to know if I already had it!!! So I spent the first month, between regular repairs, identifying, logging and organizing the parts inventory. Before that it was litterally cardboard boxes and bench drawers with odd parts piled into them and no rational or order to it. I was only with that shop for a year (the company was sold and the paint store closed) but I managed to use about fifty percent of the parts. That never could have happened if I hadn't inventoried and organized them. The parts I didn'r use were really odd pieces that are probably back in a cardboard box today (about twenty two years later).

Parts overhead is a bitch. I'm sort of lucky in that I don't need to worry about it right away. It'll be 'wait for me to order the part and pay the shipping' or drive to Seattle I do know I'll end up with a silly parts inventory. But being pre prepared isn't such an issue for starters in my particular situation.

[J M Fahey]

Guys, thanks a lot for TONS of good, feet on the ground practical advice.

[Enzo]

And Juan, if you ever decide to start a business, by god, we'll be here for you.




Some parts are generic, like fuses and resistors. I know I will always need 12AX7s and 6L6s, so I keep a FEW on hand. But there will ALWAYS be thiings you won't have. Then you get into the sticky area of ordering for the repairs. I might need a simple jack for a repair, but there are many different shapes of jack, and if I don't have the exact one, nothing else fits. Nowdays most suppliers have no minimum order, but some still do. If your source for something has a $25 minimum order, and you need a $2 jack, there are only so many ways to spend an extra $23 on things you actually need. And then what about next week's small part? But even without a minimum, there is shipping. I don't think I see shipping for less than $8 anywhere. $12 is common enough. That is for minimal weight, like up to a pound or so. If I buy 1000 resistors, 25 transistors, 30 small e-caps, and a jack, that won;t weigh a lot, and I pay the $12. If I divide that $12 across the pile of stuff I just got, it doesn;t add a lot per piece. But if I only order one jack... Let me see, $2 jack, $12 UPS, that is $14 in my door. But i also will be sending a check to pay for this, somewhere sometime. That costs me something too. But I can't sell parts at cost, my money has to earn a living too. I sell jacks for $4 usually. That doesn;t look outrageous to customers, and it reflects an A markup on my cost...if it was $2. If I got the jack for 50 cents, then I have a pretty good profit on that part. But what do I do when the part just cost me $14? I gotta mark it up. WHat should I do, charge the customer $28 for a jack? And keep a straight face? Try explaining that to someone. Hell, even not marking it up, how can I charge a customer even $14 for a jack?

SO there is just one little shop management dance you have to do on a regular basis. The more repair volume you do, then the easier it is to keep parts flow up. As a small shop, this will be a much harder problem to solve.