Speaker Advice Needed

[MisterLurch]

I am building a Fender '63 Blackface Deluxe Reverb, and I am in the process of gathering the parts for it. I have settled on a Warehouse 12" G12C 75 Watt speaker for it. My question is twofold: A) Is that a good choice for a modern speaker to closely approximate the vintage sound of the Blackface, and 2) That model of speaker is available with an impedance of either 8 or 16 ohms. What effect does the impedance of the speaker have on the performance of the amplifier?

[hylaphone]

Looks like a nice speaker for the amp, you'll want to match the impedance with that of your output transformer -- probably 8 ohms

[soundguruman]

No, I would not buy it.

There are lots of cheap speakers, and this is just another one.

Better speakers are more expensive, and sound much better.

If you want the sound of the original Fender Speaker, then just buy Fender Speakers.
There is very little difference in the price.

"closely approximate the vintage sound of the Blackface,"

Well, sales people will tell you "anything" to sell you something.
It depends on your level of gullibility.

[Mick Bailey]

If you want the sound of the original Fender Speaker, then just buy Fender Speakers.
There is very little difference in the price.

But that would be a modern Fender speaker, not an original. There would be a difference in sound.

[MisterLurch]

Well, technically it was not a sales person from whom I got that opinion. I got it from this article.

[Leo_Gnardo]

A few years back I was delighted to work on a Dec. '63 built Deluxe Reverb, absolutely stock. Surprisingly it did not have the "bite" in the top end we're used to hearing from DR's. The circuitry was as shown in the schematic and identical to DR's made subsequently. In fact the tone was mellow, and clear at the same time. Now the mystery - the original speaker was in place but I forget whether it was Oxford or Goodmans. Whichever, you would get as near the original tone by scaring up one or t'other on ebay or wherever else you can. Lots of guitarists prefer other speakers to get brasher tones and that's all well and good. You said you're trying for the original. So that's about as good as I can do for advice.

Racking brain "which was it, Goodmans or Oxford...". I'm sure some expert out there has the answer.

[guitician]

Your getting off on the right foot choosing the Speaker first. That is were the tone is at, or where it comes out, or both. I have this old fifties 12" Jensen that I picked up cheap and never though it would be anything than a nice low watt combo speaker. When I finally wired it up to test it out I was very surprised to find how much it altered the sound of my amp for the better. It does something to the sound, that I never heard from other old Jensens I've played. An old(Late 50's, early 60's) P12R would be my first choice, in original un-reconed condition. There are a lot of re-coned speakers claiming to be original, so beware.

[Justin Thomas]

Didn't Jim Marshall put Goodmans in his amps way way back, like before Marshall was even a company? I thought they were British? Unless you are in Europe, Leo, which I believe you are? I'm inclined to say it would be an Oxford, although... I've got a 66 Princeton Reverb with a 1966 Jensen C12N in it; stock? Maybe, but it's more speaker than I would have expected for a humble beginner/student amp. Maybe someone replaced it way back when, same with yours? The other 66 PriRev I have has a 66 CTS in it... I guess anything can happen, huh?

Justin

[Leo_Gnardo]

Didn't Jim Marshall put Goodmans in his amps way way back, like before Marshall was even a company? I thought they were British? Unless you are in Europe, Leo, which I believe you are? I'm inclined to say it would be an Oxford, although... I've got a 66 Princeton Reverb with a 1966 Jensen C12N in it; stock? Maybe, but it's more speaker than I would have expected for a humble beginner/student amp. Maybe someone replaced it way back when, same with yours? The other 66 PriRev I have has a 66 CTS in it... I guess anything can happen, huh?

Justin

Somewhere early 60's Fender started using Goodmans & Oxfords instead of their old standby Jensens. It may have been an availability thing rather than tone choice. Can just imagine Fender ordering up 20,000 Jensens only to be told "you'll have to wait, the factory is busy with their order from xxx,yyy,zzz whoever - we have to finish their multi thousand order before we start on yours." We imagine giant assembly lines, car factory size, when the real deal probably took up the space of a couple garages. Limited throughput ya might say. Fender had to reach out & find some competent speakers to fill their amp orders. Oxford and Goodmans were there to save the day. Since then a lot of them got blown up, or replaced with speakers more suited to the amp owner's ear. Or whatever was available. I expect that's what happened with your Fenders Justin. Especially the Princeton as those had 10's. I do remember lots of complaints about the UK speakers not being bright enough for some players' tastes. So Mister Lurch, there's where you have some deciding to do. Mellow like the Oxford/Goodmans in the authentic original late 63 DR, or bright like most Jensens, then you can narrow down your choices even more.

Goodmans in early Marshalls - I just don't know. You'd have to get an answer from a real Marshall maven on that one. Wouldn't doubt there were some though. Early days, lots of experimentation trying to satisfy the customers while keeping the amps & cabs from damage.

Though my grandparents were from every corner of the UK, including olde York, I'm in New York. North of the exploding buildings in Duh Big Siddy, and south of the latest blizzard.

[Justin Thomas]

Thanks Leo, yeah, Oxford I'd expect. And the Marshall/Goodmans I thought I read in the Marshall book. Back in the days of his "Fender's Radio Repair" equivalent days... not in Marshall amps, but he used to assemble PA kits w. Goodmans cabinets for customers in his shop. And remember - he only started building amps cuz Femders cost a lot! Hmmmm, sounds familiar, don't it?

I personally like brighter speakers in a Fender... higher sensitivity is also good, for lower powered amps, IMHO. I can always dial the high end out, but I can't put it back in! My personal philosophy is, I'll use any speaker if it's $20 or less... free is good! New, I've bought Webers, as I found them consistent, and this can get REAL expensive, trying speakers out. I'm curious to try some Emis if the price is right. Sadly, about the only way to TRULY try out a speaker is to go find an amp &/or cab with the ones you're thinking about, bring along the amp you wanna use with it, and have at it!

[Chuck H]

That may be a decent speaker. With a resonant frequency of 126Hz, a seamed cone and an efficiency of 96dB it sure doesn't seem like it though. I think SGM's considerations are worthy. The speaker is the voice of your amp. One of the four most important and expensive elements in the final sound. Maybe THE most important. This is not the place to trim the budget. So, though I don't know what sort of budget you need to accommodate, I would recommend the best speaker you can reasonably afford. If that is this speaker then so be it. OTOH there are other "affordable" speakers that have better performance at a better price. The Eminence Legend 1258 is a good all around guitar speaker that most payers like pretty well for a little less $$$.

[MisterLurch]

Thanks to you all. I decided to err on the side or original and ordered a 1957 Jensen P12R that was listed as having the original cone in good condition.

Thanks again.

[Chuck H]

Well... That's also problematic. Those speakers were assembled with hide glue and paper formers. Both become very brittle with age. That speaker as new was only just up to that amp. Pushing an old one may result in a failure.

JM2C