Why so expensive?

[art_lessing]

dumb question: If basic amp technology is so old now, and analog circuits are tried and true, why are they so pricey? Like boutique amps and such....

Can I build one myself from a kit and expect great sound?

[Justin Thomas]

Yes, you can build a kit and expect great sound.

The reason so expensive? One-man shop, sometimes doing EVERYTHING, they charge for TIME. No economies of scale, sometimes these are one-of-a-kind creations. Factor in that my self-employment taxes run around 30%, and I don't make much at all. So, let's see. One amp, takes a month to make, from cabinetry to tolex to chassis assembly. I charge $1,000. $300 right out the window to gubmint. What's rent? Parts? Utilities? Got a family? Suddenly $3,000 doesn't sound so crazy.

Plus, a kit will give the beginner instructions. If I throw a bunch of parts at someone, and expect an amp to come out of it, is that fair or reasonable? There's a story on here somewhere where an engineer billed like $50K to make a single chalk line. The moral was, yes, it was $1 for chalk. It was $49,999 to know WHERE to put the chalk. You're also paying for someone to (hopefully) know what they are doing, and to keep you safe and alive while doing it. If someone screws up at this, you could DIE.

Juan can probably do the best breakdown of this, not to knock others in any way. But I think he's the only one who's made his own speaker frames.

Justin

[big_teee]

It's all those parts, transformers, cabinets, and labor.
I've built 2 variations of the JCM800 from scratch, one I kept and one I sold.
After selling the second one, I realized I probably didn't make a dollar an hour.
Same with guitar Pickups.
I make and sell a few.
When you ask $75-$100 for a custom humbucker, you get told you're crazy for wanting that much.
If you make your own, you will change your mind.
GL,
Terry

[Leo_Gnardo]

Turn the question on its head: "why are they so cheap?" The mass produced stuff: deep quantity parts discounts, unskilled/semiskilled labor, non union overseas willing to work for a bowl of rice & a fish head labor because there's no other choice, factories set up to do repetitive tasks aka assembly lines, cut throat competition, direct sales to buyers cutting out stores including internet sales, engineer to the lowest common denominator, expect the buyer to replace cheap gear with more cheap gear when it breaks because it's unrepairable aka disposable, that's what the rabble accepts and expects, everybody's doing it now, need I go on?

[eschertron]

the bureau of labor statistics gives me this info: $500 in 1967 is equal to $3569 in 2015 dollars. So that Fender Twin would be $3500 or so today. I make that comparison because that's essentially the technology that is used in all the hand-wired 'booteek' offerings out there. I guess that is why old Fenders can still command a good price on Eekbay. adjusted for inflation, they are going cheap!

Inflation Calculator - 1967 dollars in 2015

1960 & 1967 Fender Guitar & Amp Price List Booklet - MyLesPaul.com

[eschertron]

...and yes, I have looked at some kits and would rather build one than get a pricey boutique amp or 'vintage' 60s amp off of Eekbay. Caveat: adding up all the component costs, plus tools, consumables, and my TIME I'm going near the boutique price mark for an amp - as mentioned above - that may not perform the way I expect, simply because my technique doesn't match that of the experienced builder.

I used to be waay into building flying model airplanes. Those kits are completely unforgiving for novice mistakes. While a kit amp may not crash and break into pieces if it's been assembled with less than perfect skill, there are still laws of physics in play. Amps can hum, sizzle, or howl as a result of improper build technique. So...

Can I build one myself from a kit

yes, absolutely

and expect great sound?

yes, with care and experience

[J M Fahey]

To boot, technology advances so you don't even need to buy "a Twin" , if you are, say, a Pro session player and want to cope with different dates you get, even the loudest ones.

As a practical example, here in Argentina there's many a Pro Guitar Player, which in my book is that guy capable of being hired for a band backing a Pro/famous singer in a show or recording studio, play any kind of Weddings, even those requiring Ethnic Music, play in a TV show band or recording Commercials or playing softly in a Hotel Lounge or teach Music, would have bought an expensive Twin reverb (and then keeping 30 or 40 years) or a Roland JC120 , which now buy a ..... Fender FM120 .
We are talking a $199 amp !!!!!
Why? .... first and foremost it sounds *good* , specially playing clean, which these Pro players do 80% of the time.
To go on, they are WAY lighter and reasonably well made and durable.
That besides they cost $199 is the cherry on top of the pie, they would buy the same even if paying $1000 or more ... anyway a lot less than a Twin or JC120

Now,"boutique" by itself means something out of the standard commercial rules, people pay 5X the price they should because such and such amp was used by John Mayer, Eric Clapton or SRV ... and 10X to 20X , such as in the U$50000 Dumbles, because they are/were played by Larry Carlton or Robben Ford.

Butb that is completely unrelated to technology or real cost.

[Justin Thomas]

I will say, if I had the money, I would pay an artisan to make a beautiful custom cab, either for one of my amps, or whatever. I will pay boutique prices for art I like. That being said, the amp inside better sound darn good to boot, because I DO believe in taking amps out & playing them, no matter how expensive, fragile, or pretty they are. FIRST comes the sound.

So I guess I don't mind "booteek" in that sense (art). But yeah, $3000 for a Tweed Bassman clone? Meh... been done. A tweed Twin with trem? What's new? Personally, I'd probably gut some of the amps Juan posted above & install my own Voxangeless mutts inside.

Justin

[art_lessing]

Thanks guys these are great insights. I am tempted to build an amp but am a novice at electronics. I need to find a simple kit....I am looking for a 40-60 watt solid state amp with nothing but volume bass and treble. I play with a bunch of pedals for everything else

[Chuck H]

Thanks guys these are great insights. I am tempted to build an amp but am a novice at electronics. I need to find a simple kit....I am looking for a 40-60 watt solid state amp with nothing but volume bass and treble. I play with a bunch of pedals for everything else

If 40 to 60 watts of solid state power is your end game I don't think there's much to be gained by building one for yourself. Such amps aren't that expensive. As a novice you'd need to tool up and buying small quantities increases materials cost. You'll almost certainly do lesser soldering, bending, lead dress, etc. than a factory entity employing experienced people and using state of the art technology. There's the time it will take to build. And more if you have trouble shooting issues. You probably won't acquire the bench gear necessary to confirm performance on such an amp so there would be no guarantee of relative goodness, no warranty and no product support save what you can provide for yourself as a novice.

Building a tube amp for ones self makes a little more sense because the goal is a signature amplifier sound. The kit would be a clone of that design. Since the cost of a new item of these sorts of amps is high there's a greater savings. Suppose a 50% savings by virtue of DIY and a parts/tools expense. If a new or good used mid sized SS amp goes for, say $350, and to make one costs you $175, Tooling up costs you another $120 you save $55. If a good mid sized tube amp goes for $1300, and to make one costs you $650, tooling up costs another $120, you save $530. Unless what you actually want is a project and an experience it just doesn't make sense to DIY a 50W SS amp IMHO if all you want is something to play your guitar through at a good price.

[big_teee]

Does anyone build Weber amp kits anymore?
That might be a cheaper alternative.
Kits - AMPS
T

[J M Fahey]

I think Art is not trying to save money but to have the (great) pleasure of building something himself and then proudly use it.

If so, go ahead.

Whatever you want to ask or share, this is the place

Start by looking at Rod Elliot's Guitar amp project, you can even get the bare PCBs from him and get everything else locally.
sound.westhost.com/project27.htm

In fact you can mix 2 things: get for peanuts or free a dead 50/100W SS amplifier "not worth repairing" so you already have chassis and transformer , cabinet and even speaker if it's a combo.

The "mechanical parts" are the big problem for homemakers; you can stuff them with your own built amp, best of both Worlds.

Of course you can fully personalize it: retolex, change grill cloth (you can even use a Deadhead approved tye dyed cloth ) and cover the old panel markings with a piece of acrylic or self printed sticky paper graphics.

[Leo_Gnardo]

I think Art is not trying to save money but to have the (great) pleasure of building something himself and then proudly use it.

If so, go ahead.

Whatever you want to ask or share, this is the place

Start by looking at Rod Elliot's Guitar amp project, you can even get the bare PCBs from him and get everything else locally.
sound.westhost.com/project27.htm

In fact you can mix 2 things: get for peanuts or free a dead 50/100W SS amplifier "not worth repairing" so you already have chassis and transformer , cabinet and even speaker if it's a combo.

The "mechanical parts" are the big problem for homemakers; you can stuff them with your own built amp, best of both Worlds.

Of course you can fully personalize it: retolex, change grill cloth (you can even use a Deadhead approved tye dyed cloth ) and cover the old panel markings with a piece of acrylic or self printed sticky paper graphics.

Like all of the above! Another option is to let your little sister paint the dashboard, like Z-Vex pedals. Bees bugs and flowers... goes good with tie dye. Bring back the hippy 60's.

[Justin Thomas]

Wow, I totally missed that the OP is named Art... Puts a new spin on MY post then! I should put up pics of the art my friend did for my Bassman 100 control panel. The previous owner had scraped off the "B," so I couldn't play THAT amp in church... so I sanded it & had her make me some custom art. Another thing: you don't hire an artist and then tell them what you want, unless they ask you first. I just told her "do your thing, because I know I'll be blown away by the result." And I was!

Justin

[Leo_Gnardo]

I should put up pics of the art my friend did for my Bassman 100 control panel. The previous owner had scraped off the "B," so I couldn't play THAT amp in church...

What's the problem . . . ??? We had a woman bass player around these parts, recently moved to West Virginia, and that's her last name, scout's honor! Maybe a bit provocative to some but so what, that's her family name. I got respect: she can slap that bass like nobody's bizness, and slap anybody up side the head that would make fun of her.