which 6V6 puch pull, tube rectified circuit?

[Giordano]

I had a chance to listen and try a second combo, and, honestly, I have to say for me this 6V6/6L6 is a dead end probably. From all the articles, posts and youtube videos (I know, I know, do not judge on poor microphoned sound through youtube in headphones ...), so I thought the 6V6/6L6 is the way to go. Well, we had a chance to try a Vox AC15 and it made me re think the concept and go to the no feedback. I realized in general I like the Vox type sound better than a Fender sound. I know it is a sweeping statement, and please forgive me for that, I have very tiny experience with guitar amps.
I really appreciate all your help and I'm sorry. This all was not useless at all and I appreciate your contribution. This forum is great.
At the moment I do not know where to go. The sound I'm looking for is when the AC15 overdriven and when it is clean. I did not know -probably basic for you- that this overdrive is ages better -at least for my taste- than the distorsion pedal. At least what we tried.
Another thing is that I knew 12W is a lot. I have a 9W hifi amp and it is plenty in the room. Still, this 12W on a pretty sensitive Celestion speaker, it is a lot. Even more than I thought.
Now, I'm looking for what smaller one to make. Or make an AC15 clone, or back to the 5E3. No vibrato/termolo for sure.

Thanks!
JG

[Justin Thomas]

Just for the record, my last build, the intended buyer went through every single power tube before correctly guessing 6V6. Not to discount power tube sound, but preamp matters too. A lot.
He actually guessed EL34 first... KT66, EL84, 6L6, 6V6 in that order.

Use what you have for the power section & mate the preamp to it. Of course you wouldn't have a clone, but a very nice unique amp. No reason you csan't have an AC15/Deluxe mutant.

Justin

[Enzo]

If you are not having luck with your search terms, also try "insulated standoff" or "standoff terminal".

[Chuck H]

I had a chance to listen and try a second combo, and, honestly, I have to say for me this 6V6/6L6 is a dead end probably. From all the articles, posts and youtube videos (I know, I know, do not judge on poor microphoned sound through youtube in headphones ...), so I thought the 6V6/6L6 is the way to go. Well, we had a chance to try a Vox AC15 and it made me re think the concept and go to the no feedback. I realized in general I like the Vox type sound better than a Fender sound. I know it is a sweeping statement, and please forgive me for that, I have very tiny experience with guitar amps.
I really appreciate all your help and I'm sorry. This all was not useless at all and I appreciate your contribution. This forum is great.
At the moment I do not know where to go. The sound I'm looking for is when the AC15 overdriven and when it is clean. I did not know -probably basic for you- that this overdrive is ages better -at least for my taste- than the distorsion pedal. At least what we tried.
Another thing is that I knew 12W is a lot. I have a 9W hifi amp and it is plenty in the room. Still, this 12W on a pretty sensitive Celestion speaker, it is a lot. Even more than I thought.
Now, I'm looking for what smaller one to make. Or make an AC15 clone, or back to the 5E3. No vibrato/termolo for sure.

Thanks!
JG

Consider that she will need to use the amp in whatever circumstance arises relative what sort of music SHE decides to play. So an amp with a good solid clean tone would be my first choice. That said... EL84's generate more intermodulation distortions than 6V6's (as a generalization). Also consider that if she starts playing with a band it might be good if her amp didn't need to be replaced right away with a louder one. So I'll stay with the vote for 6V6's. They make a louder amp (by a few watts at least) and with more headroom. The zero feedback thing is a particular sound that may not be right for everything. So maybe put it on a pot or a switch. Keep the control layout simple. A good, solid amp can always make use of pedals for more tonal coloration. I think a basic, loud enough type guitar amp would be a good goal without more defining parameters.

[Giordano]

I'm thinking of making a Princeton, 5D2 to start with and than after probably years, we will see.
What started it all is an event where a girls duo performed on a small stage on a local event, one was singing the other played on the guitar.
Now, when we tried the VOX, it was in a room, not open environment and beside she liked the sound, there were two problems. The volume needed for the good sound was way too high and also the base noise was quite high also. I accepted it but it annoyed her. I told it will never be dead silent, but still, I think I will need shielding on the input tubes etc.

Is that a stupid idea to make an output transformer with more outputs? I mean connect an 8 ohm speaker to 16 or 32 ohm output? Or that creates other problems with not loading the tube with the right impedance? Practically, I'm thinking of a transformer volume control, having the distorsion but at lower levels. Or, is it possible to reduce supply voltage? Like half it, switchable.

Thanks,
JG

[mikepukmel]

I'm thinking of making a Princeton, 5D2 to start with and than after probably years, we will see.
What started it all is an event where a girls duo performed on a small stage on a local event, one was singing the other played on the guitar.
Now, when we tried the VOX, it was in a room, not open environment and beside she liked the sound, there were two problems. The volume needed for the good sound was way too high and also the base noise was quite high also. I accepted it but it annoyed her. I told it will never be dead silent, but still, I think I will need shielding on the input tubes etc.

Is that a stupid idea to make an output transformer with more outputs? I mean connect an 8 ohm speaker to 16 or 32 ohm output? Or that creates other problems with not loading the tube with the right impedance? Practically, I'm thinking of a transformer volume control, having the distorsion but at lower levels. Or, is it possible to reduce supply voltage? Like half it, switchable.

Thanks,
JG

Oh man, I feel your pain, I think Ive heard this complaint more times in my life than I can count: the amp sounds great at volume level 7 but its too loud at that volume! People have tried every possible odd "solution", including putting the amps in another room, running guitar and mic cords under the door, putting blankets and pillows over the amp, putting the amp facing the floor on thick carpeting. then in the later days, buying an expensive Attenuator box, that kills the tone anyway, maybe not as badly as pillows and blankets. If she likes the 'clipping' sound, maybe start looking for stomp boxes. They won't give her the exact 'holy grail' tube amp distortion, but maybe she can find one she likes. There are a bunch of "tube sound" distortion boxes, look at the Tube Screamer etc. I know, its not the same thing, but maybe she can get close without having to put on the aircraft mechanic hearing protectors.

[mikepukmel]

If she likes to crank up the amp till it produces tube distortion, a Princeton is not all that much quieter than a Deluxe: about 22 vs about 15 watts isn't much of a reduction. If she likes tube distortion, she still might not like the way one of these sounds:

https://reverb.com/marketplace?query=attenuator

With your skills and experience you could build one easily. Judging by comments from musicians, they have varied success depending on the exact tone they're looking for.

[Chuck H]

All this is why I suggested a good, basic amp with enough power to be used in a conservative band/live environment. We all got by using stomp boxes for low volume distortion when we started out. It's not THAT bad But if she starts practicing with a band in. say, less than a year, which happens, she's going to need an amp that can deliver. Projects are fun but building amps for her in stages as her needs and circumstances change seems cumbersome and will be difficult to accommodate if things change quickly (as they can). Not to mention changes to her basic tone and familiarity with her gear. I really think she could do well with what we all wish we had from the beginning. A good, basic tube amp. A tool that she can grow with and use for years and learn to love and appreciate.

JM2C

[Justin Thomas]

I really think she could do well with what we all wish we had from the beginning. A good, basic tube amp. A tool that she can grow with and use for years and learn to love and appreciate.

Bassman HEAD with 6V6s (JJ) that can take 6L6s if needed... AB165 or later for jumping channels, maybe add a Mid control if you really think you need it. It's about as stupid-simple, good, basic, and "growable" as it gets. No Reverb or Tremolo to have to try to remove, and it'll grind like a mofo if you need it to, should do okay with a reasonable drummer if you move enough speaker area... Master Volume? We don't need no stinking Master Volume!

Perfect.

Justin

[Giordano]

I would have another, maybe wild question. How good are these if they want to use a clean input for an electric piano? I mean should I forget that?

I had another visit on the weekend to friends and I got two pair of 6L6 tubes :-)

No way that I will use it all, even one pair is plenty, but I will probably drop the 6V6 idea and go for 6L6. I've got them from a friend who built hifi amps with my help and he started with 6V6, than 6L6 than 2A3. I've got them just to forget the 6V6 tubes and it seems it is effective :-) He believes 6V6 to 6L6 is a quality step, but this is in hifi world, not as guitar amp.

What do you think? Where these work the best?

Another stupid question. You guys suggest sometime the "bassman". Isn't that designed for bass guitar? Or that does not mean it is only for bass? Does not compromise mid/higher freq response?

Thanks a lot,
JG

[Enzo]

I would say more Bassman owners play guitar through them than bass.

For clean piano and keys, I wouldn't be looking at guitar amps. I'd even be looking at solid state amps.

[Justin Thomas]

The Fender Bassman is from a time when "bass" amps differed from guitar amps by maybe one capacitor, and there was no such thing as "bass" speakers. Play a bass through a Bassman with period correct speakers and I bet you will find more than adequate high end. You can dial that out with tone controls.
Piano sounds great through a Bassman. Or a Concert. Or a Twin Reverb. Does it sound "crystal-clear" and have 20-20k? No, but it does sound warm, aesthetically pleasing, and better to my ears than just pumping it through a PA... Bass sounds great through a Bassman too.

Justin

[mikepukmel]

JG if building the wrong thing is a bigger issue, if available in your area, maybe she can rent (or borrow?) a few different amps for a day each, and see which one does it for her. A princeton size amp, and deluxe size amp, a vibrolux, a twin. (Of course, for the twin, you'd need those aircraft mechanic hearing protectors for the family )

[Giordano]

JG if building the wrong thing is a bigger issue, if available in your area, maybe she can rent (or borrow?) a few different amps for a day each, and see which one does it for her. A princeton size amp, and deluxe size amp, a vibrolux, a twin. (Of course, for the twin, you'd need those aircraft mechanic hearing protectors for the family )

Yes, I agree. Unfortunately to borrow it does not work with most (only with the AC15), but on last two weekend we checked out some and this weekend we will still do another one. I think after this weekend we will have a direction.
Regards,
JG