what is a good second project?

[cminor9]

Ok, so I have a question sure to start an interesting discussion due to its subjectivity. I completed a 5E3 a while ago. I have tweaked it to the point I am happy to let it be. I should be happy, right? No. I am hooked on amp building, so I need another project!

I did my homework before even attempting the build. I think it paid off since on first power up it worked without any build issues. It wasn't until I started tweaking things that I introduced a bug or two. I felt the 5E3 was a very easy build. I feel that I have a working understanding of how and why tube amps work, though I know I have a LOT to learn. I only mention this to let you know where my skills are. Don't think I'll be building a Dual Recto anytime soon (who'd want to?), but I think I could handle a blackface without too much trouble.

I have considered and priced building a range of amps from a 5f2a, a 5f11, a 6g11, on up to a Marshall 18 watt, an aa1164 or an ab763 (the deluxe reverb.) 6V6s are my favorite output tubes, and vibrato would be great. Reverb would be good but not necessary; playing my 5E3 has actually made the reverb on my commercial Fender amps sound weird and artificial to my ears. I don't want a high gain monster; I want the sound of a great clean amp breaking up. I don't need a lot of power or headroom, the 5E3 is plenty loud and then some for my band.

I think the 5E3 definitely lives up to its billing as a must-have. So here's the question: What is your opinion of another low to moderately powered must-have amp that could feasibly be homebuilt? Since I already have a 5E3, something with a slightly different tone/feel would interest me (which is why I was looking at brown/black face Fenders). But I am open to anything that's got THE tone, not just a Fender.

[TD_Madden]

Drop Bruce a note about his 5F4 kit.....it's a nice complement tone-wise to the 5E3 since it has 6L6s (actually 5881s) and 10 inch speakers.

By the way, WarehouseSpeakers has excellent 10's for this amp....mine sounds great!

[cminor9]

Thanks for the recommendation. I was also wondering about a 5E7, and that 5F4 is identical circuit-wise. Interesting. I guess it complements the 5E3 in that it has more clean headroom and a fatter bottom end?

Warehouse speakers? I have Weber speakers now (2 1x12 cabs for the 5E3) and they are awesome. Wonder how those compare to the Webers?

[Enzo]

OK, you have made a 5E3 from scratch and the results are good. You now know what is involved in building amps. Building any old Fender-ish sort of amp is not really any different from the 5E3, it is just more of the same. I guess it doesn't even have to be Fenderish, really.

The circuits may be more complex, but as a builder, it is still a matter of mounting the sockets, jacks, pots, and transformers, assembling the part board or boards, and doing the wiring. Other than it offers a lot more opportunities to mess up a connection, it really is not much different.

SO ther is no reason you cannot expect success in a larger project. Pick one you like and build it. The construction and soldering on a Bassman or a Twin is exactly the same stuff as on a Deluxe, ther is just more of it. There is no different skill set used.

If you DO screw something up, a more complex amp will be a more complex troubleshooting job, but that is life.

[tubeswell]

I haven't built a 5E3, I was planning to do one next. I have done a 5F2a and a 5G9 - quite different amps with different characteristics - love both of them. Getting good sounds out of my 5G9 after getting the bias right, and installing switchable cathode/fixed bias setup. The trem just kills on fixed bias. Ultimate in hypnotism. I built the fixed bias setup to be adjustable. I have heard that the 5E9a is also good (kind of like a cathode biased variant of the 5G9, albeit it's predecessor and with the trem hooked up differently).

The 5F2A is also a little ripper - needs to be miked when gigging, but 5W-10W of excellence on its own for jams and practices, esp good at Page sounds when cranked. I built mine with a 5E3-sized cab and chassis and put a 12" speaker in it and NFB loop cut switch. Beats the reissue 'Fender Champion 600' hands down.

I am finding lots of inspiration both here and at teh dumble forum

http://ampgarage.com/forum/index.php

[cminor9]

Thanks, tubeswell, for the recommendation on the 5G9. That sounds interesting, actually. I built my 5E3 as a head with two 1x12 cabs with the intent of building another head. The 5G9 would nicely fit the bill in terms of working with what I have already built.

So let's see...fixed bias, long tailed pair PI, vibrato. That's different enough from a 5E3. Anyone out there know how the tone compares to a 5E3?

Sorry if I seem a bit helpless here, but I haven't had the privilege of hearing the real deal and I haven't exactly seen any Tremoluxes in any music stores I have been in. Oh, how I wish there was some place where I could hear these old amps. That would actually be a dream come true.

[tubeswell]

From the 5E3s I've heard, the 5G9 is a bit cleaner and harder (to do with fixed bias), but this can be altered somewhat according to taste if you make the bias adjustable. (As I have said I made switchable fixed/cathode bias option in mine). It is loud enough to play with a band unmic'kd in small venues. The tremolo is very hypnotic and can be dialed to very intense or just 'slightly phasey'. As with any amp, the sounds can vary quite a bit with choice of speaker.
FWIW I posted a clip of the first sounds here;

http://music-electronics-forum.com/a...9&d=1211141788

[cminor9]

hey, that was very cool of you putting that out there for me.

Very nice playing and absolutely gorgeous trem. You should definitely be proud of that build. I think you have moved the 5G9 from a "eh, I wonder about that one" to a likely next build. Now if only I could find a sample of a brownface super to compare that with...

IIRC, the 5G9 is fixed bias, right? Any reason you made it switchable to cathode bias? Just to tame it a bit?

Wanna hear something funny? I am sitting at work and was listening to my iPod a while ago. Had to put it down midsong and attend a meeting. Care to guess what song I stopped in the middle of? CCR's Born on the Bayou, of course. Almost eerie that you'd put *that* song out there.

Edit: I tried to send you a private message because I don't want to come off as criticizing your clip publicly (because I am not) but I guess you don't accept PMs. Like I said, great clip in terms of playing and tone, but when listening to it there was a high pitched metallic ringing slightly present. The only reason I tell you this is because I am very sensitive to high frequencies. I am not kidding, someone scraping a fork against a plate across the dining room of a crowded restaurant will set me off. Anyhow, I hope you don't take offense at my saying so since I always enjoy your posts here and I really appreciate your putting that clip out here; the clip was very useful. Just felt like I should let you know because I'd want someone to let me know if they heard something strange.

[tubeswell]

when listening to it there was a high pitched metallic ringing slightly present. .

Yep I can hear other noises too in that recording - the chassis was rattling on the cab on the bassier notes because at that stage I didn't have the cab covered. Its gone now. The strings were buzzing on one of the frets on my strat (been a while since I adjusted it). Also I was being lazy just recording straight from the room into the built-in mic on my mac, so there's probably other weird stuff going on. When I get a bit of time I'll do a proper recording through my mixing desk with mics etc, but I want to put a decent speaker in it first. :-)

[cminor9]

Sure, well whatever the case, that's a nice sounding amp. I have been pricing the parts...dang, why does iron have to be so stinkin expensive?

[tubeswell]

I have been pricing the parts...dang, why does iron have to be so stinkin expensive?

I got mine made up by an old timer in Auckland who still knows how to make 'em. I got him make the PT and OT altogether for $170NZ (about $130US). There might be a local tranny winder near where you are who does under the table stuff cheaper than the factory.

For the PT what I got made up was:

300-0-300 150mA on the HT (straight off the schematic)
6.3-0-6.3 3A on the heater
5-5 3A on the recto
(and a separate 50V bias winding - I nearly forgot to add)

For the OT, I said I wanted a 5k push/pull primary (but anything up to 7.5k would be good according to Bruce), and 4R, 8R and 16R secondary taps

[black_labb]

after i made a 5e3 i made a ac15ish amp but didnt put the tremolo circuit in as i didnt feel i wanted it, and put a 12ax7 in with a vol put between the triodes to have a little bit of preamp distortion for when i occasionally want it. its not much harder than an 5e3, but finding the right transformers may be an issue as their not as common as fender style. i just used any tranny that would work for it, not a specific ac15. i didnt use a choke either.

[cminor9]

ooOOOoo, I didn't even think of a vox! That sounds pretty nice too. I'd think you could get a hammond that would do the job just fine. In fact, that wants about 300vac from the secondaries at about 150ma, right?

Can't seem to read the schematic I have (too low resolution) but that trem looks unusual. Doesn't seem to be a bias vary type, don't think they were using the photoresistors either. I'll have to track down a better schematic and have a look.

Interesting if for no other reason than to gaze at the schematic and understand how it works a little better.

Thanks for the recommendation!

[black_labb]

thats alright. reguarding transformers, i used a weber one with ss rectification. it was a multitap tranny, and the settings i had it on was supposed to give me 250, and then i used a dropping resistor to drop it down and add a bit of sag. not quite by the schematic, but it works fine and sounds great imo