Any amp builders in St. Louis Area?

[Chunkosaurus]

Hi All,
I'm looking for an amp builder in the St. Louis area to help me with a project. I want to build a Modern High Gain Head. I'm not thinking super crazy like 4 independent channels each with three modes and everything midi programmable. I would settle for two or three very usable channels. Maybe even a SLO clone.

I've done a ton of guitar wiring, good at soldering, somewhat understand schematics, and good with tools. I'm more of a musician that a builder; the problem is that I hear what I want but have a hard time explaining it. Terms like round, fizzy, raw, tight, etc sometimes through me off. I play heavy drop tuned metal so I'm not looking for smooth and classy. I need balls and bowel shaking distortion.

I'm hoping there is someone that would be willing to help me in my quest. I would be willing to buy you lunch or what ever to compensate for your time. Crap I wouldn't mind doing apprentice work if I had to.

Chad (pstrchad@yahoo.com)

[Paul P]

It's sounds to me like you're ready to start building on your own.

Why don't you build a small simple amp to get your hands wet then move
up slowly, say adding a gain stage in each new amp, until you get what
you want. Simple amps are pretty simple to build, people with just about
no experience have succeded, it's the high gain ones that can give you
trouble but if you learn why by building and debugging your way to the
top there's no reason why you couldn't succeed.

Paul P

[Chunkosaurus]

It's sounds to me like you're ready to start building on your own.

Why don't you build a small simple amp to get your hands wet then move
up slowly, say adding a gain stage in each new amp, until you get what
you want. Simple amps are pretty simple to build, people with just about
no experience have succeded, it's the high gain ones that can give you
trouble but if you learn why by building and debugging your way to the
top there's no reason why you couldn't succeed.

Paul P

Paul, Can you direct me to a good starter amp. If possible one that helps me understand gain stages, how they work, how many to use etc. Plus any links to sites that contain "helpful" info would be great.

Chad

[tubeswell]

I started with a 5F2A. (Had modded my off-the-shelf PV Classic 30 continuously for about 12 months before that, but that can't beat old fashioned turret/eyelet board layout for fun and simpicity). It has one of everything (one 12AX7, one 6V6GT, one 5Y3GT, one vol control, one tone control), and is cathode biased. I love this amp for the responsiveness it has to pick dynamics, compression, sag and bloom. You can get all sorts of sounds out of it just with your guitar and how you play. The vol control goes from smooth at one end to knarly good rock (jimmy page style) distortion when cranked - if you want more, throw a hotcake in front of it. Was also simple, and good for learning about layout, grounding and lead dress issues.

[Enzo]

Tubeswell had his fingers inside his Classic 30 a LOT. It is a common and popular amp, and in fact can be readily improved my various modifications. But I bet you'd agree that given a choice, the C30 is not probably the best choice for someone to start on. I mean due to the way it is constructed. But the experience you had with it is exactly what Chunk needs.

[Chunkosaurus]

Tell what you guys think. Would a build from scratch or modifying an existing amp give me better understanding of the way amps work, grasp design concepts, learn what I like or don't etc.?

What I see from both.

1) Build from scratch-
Pros- Have to do absolutely everything (Good Experience)
Start Small
Probably Cheaper

Cons- May not necessarily learn anything by assembling a kit or building from schematics

2) Modify Existing amp-
Pros- have to understand what I'm doing ( So I will learn the internals faster)
Have something to start with

Cons- Cost?

So you guys with experience tell me what you think. Should I build a 1-5 watter or buy a cheap head a modify it until I learn something

My goal is to be able to design and build an amp from the ground up. I eventually want to be able to build a modern multi-channel high gain amp. I just know it makes sense to start small and learn as you grow.

Chunk

Chunk

[tubeswell]

Tell what you guys think. Should I build a 1-5 watter or buy a cheap head a modify it until I learn something

My goal is to be able to design and build an amp from the ground up. I eventually want to be able to build a modern multi-channel high gain amp. I just know it makes sense to start small and learn as you grow.

Chunk

Chunk

I think both ways are instructional. I found builds are more challenging and satisfying because you do everything, woodwork, metalwork, electronics, and even a bit of upholstery. You also probably will find that you have to invest in certain tools to do the job properly (I had to get various sized chassis hole punches for making tube socket holes in chassis for example, and these are pretty much 'one-job' type of tools. Other tools like plunger routers and hole drills, decent power saws, jig saws, planers, etc help with the all-important finishing. These things probably will influence your decision whether to start with a from-scratch build or get an off-the-shelf kit or to mod.). Having a space where you can build and test your stuff is best.

Also you need to decide what you are going to start with, and assemble the various parts and build. Angela amps page inspired me to go from scratch with my first build. (Check out the how to section on single ended 6V6 project)

http://www.angela.com/

Hoffan's site is also good for beginners.

http://www.el34world.com/schematics.htm

Aiken amps glossary and FAQs pages are full of information

http://www.aikenamps.com/

RG Keen's Geofex site is full of informative discussion, esp on transformers

http://www.geofex.com/tubeampfaq/taffram.htm



On the other hand with modding I came to understand, in a monkey kind of a way, what various changes to components did to the sound.

This page is good for starters.

http://www.diystompboxes.com/pedals/tubedummy.html

Steve Ahola's site is full of excellent mods (tried several of them myself).

http://www.blueguitar.org/

Also this book is good (and free) for help with troubleshooting and basics of circuit design, power supply etc

http://www.pacificrecone.com/JackDarrBook.html

Probably the most important thing with modding modern factory assembled amps, is learning how to mod with PC boards, de-soldering properly and not overcooking the traces etc, but also giving 'em just enough solder to make a working connection, and making sure all jumper wires aren't broken or cracked before reassembling. The basic skills of learning how to solder well, keeping your iron clean by wiping on a damp rag/sponge between solders etc, making a clean connection, knowing how to read your meter properly etc when you check afterwards to make sure your connections are good and that your parts are what you want them to be, are important too.

Oh, and safety first. Very impt to learn how to discharge filter caps without hurting yourself. Residual voltages can be enough to kill you, even if the amp is switched off and unplugged. This page is useful in that regard

http://studentweb.eku.edu/justin_holton/caps.html

Underfloor rubber matting and a well insulated workbench (with good lighting) is a good precaution to prevent accidental high voltage discharges from making a path through your body to the ground. Make sure the mains where you are are propely grounded with a three-wire system. Good idea to never put your hands inside the amp if it is plugged in to the wall. Use alligator clips on your meter leads to connect to circuits for testing before switching the amp on, and switch off before disconnecting and unplugging etc. Don't do any work involving dangerous voltage measurements or lethal tools late at night - that sort of thing.

[Chunkosaurus]

I'm leaning toward buying a cheap Sovtek Mig 50 head and start modding it.

I understand these amps are a 50 watt copy of a JCM 800. So there would be TONS of mods out there to work from.

I should have mentioned this in my first post but it would probably be important to know what type of amp I want. I am looking for modern style distortion similar to a 5150.

So if any one out there has experience with a Jcm 800 mod let me know.

Chunk

[Enzo]

Building and also modifying amps are excellent experience. But I would point out that building an amp gets you used to physically working with parts and soldering, but it doesn't really offer insights into HOW the circuits work. You won't undertand a triode any better for having soldered parts to its socket. You will learn about identifying parts though.

Learning to read schematics and learning how the circuits work, will come more from reading, from actually working with various valued components within the circuits, and empirical experience. In other words watching what effect various changes have. "Gee, adding this cathode bypass cap really added some gain."

[booj]

I'm from Troy, Il., about 20 min. East of the river. I've built a few 2203/2204 clones, (JCM800)and run a service shop (Tone Love). I'd be glad to exchange some emailage to get you going, and maybe offer tech service if needed.
Come on down to 1860's Tues. night, and we can rant about detuned distortion!

[Chunkosaurus]

I'm from Troy, Il., about 20 min. East of the river. I've built a few 2203/2204 clones, (JCM800)and run a service shop (Tone Love). I'd be glad to exchange some emailage to get you going, and maybe offer tech service if needed.
Come on down to 1860's Tues. night, and we can rant about detuned distortion!

Thanks for the offer. I sent a pm with my contact info.


....by the way would you hold it against someone if they played detuned?