Anyone own a BF princeton reverb AA1164?

[tubeswell]

Sorry about this rambling post

http://www.ampwares.com/ffg/schem/pr...1164_schem.gif

The ampwares site suggest they came out between 1964 - 1967. CBS took over in 1966 (I think?), so were the AA1164s a magnanimous CBS contrivance? or are they a nice amp whose origins date from before CBS?

The reason I am asking around is that I am wanting to build a nice fixed-bias smokin' 6V6 PP with trem and verb (with my new reverb pan and tranny), that can do cool-sounding surf music or steamy cajun swampy blues.

I love the 5G9 clone I built recently and esp love the trem and I think it would be nice to have a similar sounding amp that had a deep fender-twin-style reverb, but maybe with a cathode follower type trem setup like the 5G9 (I know this would need another triode).

On the trem front, I have looked at deluxe reverb schem for the aa763 and ab763, and have even looked at the fender twin reverb ab763, but I am scared off by the LDRs in the trem circuit. I think I would prefer more of a 5G9 type trem.

On the tone stack front, I remain indifferent about whether to go for a single tone control or a more complicated tone stack. I note that the AA1164 has a 2-bit tone stack right after the first stage, and I'm not sure (how well that would work, and) whether it might be an inprovement to put a CF stage after that first stage before the tone stack.

On the power supply front I also wonder whether the AA1164 might go better with a small 4H choke between the OT and screen supply nodes (instead of a 1k resistor)

And if I was going to figure in another triode to this amp (to help with tone stack CF and trem CF stages), I probably would need more juice on the HT winding (I see the Pro BF Reverb uses 340-0-340 with 6 x pre-amp bottles and 2 x 6L6s). (I know I'd need another 0.6A on the heater winding)

So with all these musings, I am wondering whether somebody could please humour me (by offering me your esteemed opinions), or put me on a more stable path to surfin'-swamp-blues nirvana.

[tubeswell]

Okay seeing as how ampwares is in retreat, I have uploaded the scheme that I posted the link to before here

I hope ampwares gets back on line soon.

[TheTinMan]

I built two AA1164 clones in the past year. IIRC that pre-dates CBS. "Cool sounding surf music" is definitely obtainable. "Steamin' Cajun swampy blues" may not be the Princeton Reverb's strong suit. The Vibrato channel of the Deluxe Reverb AB763 might be a better jumping off point for your build. Bigger output transformer, more wattage, 12" speaker, etc. An AB763 with reverb on both channels, a stock Blackface preamp on one channel and whatever you want on the other makes a lot of sense IMHO.

Check out Doug Hoffman's version of an AB763 with bias vary tremolo: http://www.el34world.com/Hoffman/images/Ab763.gif. More info available at www.el34world.com. The tremolo is from the 6G16 VibroVerb.

Once you add a cathode follower or substitute a different tone stack, it's not going to sound like a Princeton Reverb anymore. Not that it's a bad thing, just different. I put a 50K mid pot on my second P.R. build and that's been a really successful experiment. Mids at 1-3 sounds like a Blackface tone stack. Mids at 7 & up greatly reduces the loss from the tone stack, driving the rest of the amp harder. It's similar Allen's "Raw" control. A few other tweaks show up in my schematic, mostly intended to cut bass response some. The first build had more bass than sounded good in the vintage-sized cab with a Weber 10F150-T (great speaker IMHO). I also increased power supply filtering, including the bias supply. A choke may very well be in the future for this amp if I can find space for it on the chassis.

Hope this helps,

Chip

P.S. There's a really good modernized layout for the AA1164 on the Hoffman forum in the "Archives" section.

[tubeswell]

Thanks TinMan - I've stashed that away. :-) Interesting to see the 6G16 doesn't have LDRs in the trem circuit. You got any sound bytes of your SF Princeton Reverb?

[ncboy654]

Tinman, can you post a picture of the insides. I'd like to see how you fit all the extra filtering in there.

Thanks

[TheTinMan]

ncboy - here's a thread including pics, layout, etc.
http://www.el34world.com/Forum/index.php?topic=4337.0

I used 3/4 of the JJ 40/20/20/20 cap can for poweramp filtering. I was trying to isolate the poweramp grounds from the preamp ground bus.

This layout follows Doug Hoffman's approach pretty closely except for the ground bus on the board (instead of along the pots) and the filter caps on the edge of the board. Oh, and the separate bias board...

There are a few tweaks I'd do (or have already done) to the layout. Shield leads to and from the Reverb pot. Shield lead from Dwell pot to board. More physical space between PI grid and tremolo circuit (Hoffman has an "extra" turret row to separate them). I had problems with the tremolo signal bleeding into the reverb return & boost.

Hope this helps.

Chip

[MWJB]

"CBS took over in 1966 (I think?), so were the AA1164s a magnanimous CBS contrivance? or are they a nice amp whose origins date from before CBS?" CBS took over in '65, no major changes to amps until '68. 65/66/67 amps are true to pre CBS blackface.

Even beyond BF into late SF the Princeton & Champ changed very little circuit-wise, voltages were pushed up, rectifiers changed and layout went to pot in th late 70's. Even the Deluxe reverb stayed fairly true to BF as far as the circuit goes, bias balance and parasitic surpression caps were largely it.

[KingCameron]

BF Princeton Reverb-amps rocks!!

I have a 67 Princeton Reverb-amp (AA1164) and its great! I also have a AB1270 that sounds killer.

I used to play drums for Junior Brown and I know that a lot of his recorded tone was done on a 67 Princeton (AA1164)...listen to some of that and you'll know what a '58 Gibson 335 / Telecaster / Sho-bud steel sound like with this amp, as played in a studio. His live stuff was all done on BF Twins which are too brutal for studio work