tolex/adhesive frustration

[cminor9]

I am SO $#&* frustrated with the adhesives I have been using for Tolex. I use 3M #90 hi-strength adhesive. I used it on an amp I build a year ago, and already the tolex is peeling. I followed the instructions and then placed weights on the box overnight to firmly fix the tolex to the wood. It seemed ok, but this stuff shouldn't be peeling after only one year.

I don't think I EVER want to use tolex again, unless I find an adhesive that actually works and lasts. So annoying, especially considering the cost of tolex and the adhesive.

Besides Tolex and staining the wood, anyone use any other techniques to finish your projects that are within the reach of an average home builder?

If you must go the tolex route, how have your results been over time? What did you do to make it work?

[cminor9]

Man, it seems this forum has been pretty quiet here lately. Or maybe nobody likes me anymore

Alright, so for the price of a trip to Lowes, a couple of different adhesives, some scraps of wood and tolex, and some time experimenting, I think I have some good results.

I tried a few different types of adhesives to get the tolex edges to stay put. Something too hard like super glue and epoxy isn't so good for Tolex. Figured that. A different type of contact cement is just more of the same; like the 3M #90 it works fine for everything but the edges. So something not hard, but not too soft is what I figured I'd need.

The winner: Gorilla glue. It seems to have worked very well. Just followed the instructions on the packaging. It sort of foams up and expands after you apply it and clamp it. My edges don't seem to be going anywhere now. So if you are having trouble with your tolex peeling on the corners or other edges try Gorilla glue. A little goes a long way.

Next thing I build, I'll try using the 3M spray adhesive but I'll put masking tape on the last 1/4" for each edge on the outside of the cab. I'll put the gorilla glue on the edges, and I think that might work well.

So everyone, there's something that seemed to have worked for me. Time will tell how it endures. If I appear here a year from now ranting about how Gorilla glue didn't work, then so be it.

Looking at my Fender amps, I notice that the tolex seems to be form-fitted to the cabinet. Anyone ever try applying heat to the tolex to help it mold a little bit? Just a thought.

Now it's your turn. My question still stands: anyone try anything besides staining wood or using tolex? Any tips on tolexing that you'd like to share?

[Daver]

I use the tolex glue offered by Mojotone. It's a bit expensive, but it works. You can reposition the tolex, it's water based so there's no smell and your brushes or rollers clean up well for re-use, and it stays put. I have used a hair dryer to heat tolex before. Just don't go too high on the heat setting and it works fine. Oh, some of my cabinets are well over a year old and still not peeling!
Dave

[dwhutchens]

I've used this on a few projects with good success.

DAP Products - Construction Adhesives - DAPŪ WeldwoodŪ Original Contact Cement

I've used it on tolex several times and on kitchen and bathroom counter tops.

David

[GregS]

My question still stands: anyone try anything besides staining wood or using tolex?

I use indoor/outdoor carpet from Lowes. I use the carpet adhesive for it that I apply with a trowel. I can't remember exactly what the adhesive is but it gives you lots of time to position the covering before setting up. Also, there are no toxic fumes or anything like that. The carpet is also really easy to put on and do a perfect job of it. I'm new to this and even my first attempt worked out perfectly. I've never tried tolex or tweed.

The appearance of the carpet might not be everyone's cup of tea. It doesn't have the vintage look of tolex or tweed. However, it's very durable, easy to work with, and costs very little.

Greg

[tubeswell]

Besides Tolex and staining the wood, anyone use any other techniques to finish your projects that are within the reach of an average home builder?

Hi cminor9

I use fabric glued to bare pine with Weldbond glue

Weldbond Universal Space Age Adhesive. Weldbond Glue bonds most everything.

Sticks and stays stuck - quite hard to get off (but not impossible) and quite quick drying (so its good to work with), whilst allowing a little time for good positioning. Dries to a transparent finish. Perfect for bonding fabric to timber.

Works for me

(Edit - Geezsh I didn't realise when I copied the link that it would have a corny slogan :-0)

[txstrat]

On my last two projects I've used sorta this (Tolex Glue special glue for Tolex/Tweed coverings TAD TubeAmpDoctor) and I'm quite satisfied. Nothing peels. Put it on both surfaces let dry and apply.

[cminor9]

Thanks for the suggestions. Funny, I just bought the DAP contact cement, so I'll try that next. It sure is frustrating to spend like $50 on tolex and adhesive for a head and have it not look quite right after a while. Also, I'll try heating with a hair dryer. That's a good idea. Gotta re-do the back panel of the head shell I built for the 6g3. Contact cement and hair dryer. Will report back on that.

I wonder how hard it would be to do a polyurethane finish, like Speedster does? (Speedster Amplifiers, beware, the web page has *sound*, ick) Anyone ever try that? Looks really nice. On second thought, probably really hard to make it look really nice like that.

txstrat, my 6g3 is almost done, just waiting on the PT to come this week. For inspiration, I listened to your clips again. Good sounds! I can't wait. Might have a gig on Sat. Might be fun to christen the amp that way (with a backup of course.)

[PremiumPlus]

Hey cminor9, what about using that stuff they spray on truck bed liners? My son is in the middle of recovering a beautiful old baritone horn case, and it's loaded with compound curves. We know it's going to be a nightmare to try to tolex, and a friend suggested the truck bed stuff the other day...we're going to buy some and try it on some scrap wood.
What do you think?

[billyz]

The Best glue to use for tolex is Hide Glue. Not the Franklins liquid hide glue. The kind you melt in a pot with equal parts water. Just like what the factories use (at least the old USA companies). Does not lift, dries hard (your cabinet will sound better) , not soft like contact adhesives. You can use an old electric frying pan to melt it. Cleans up with water. You can get it from Stewmac or even ebay. for touch ups I use titebond carpenters glue or elmers wood glue.
Sam Hutton told me to use Hide Glue, he used to work at Fender in the 60's and that is what they used. Sam was one of the first guys to do authentic restorations of vintage Fender amps.

[cminor9]

The Best glue to use for tolex is Hide Glue. Not the Franklins liquid hide glue. The kind you melt in a pot with equal parts water. Just like what the factories use (at least the old USA companies). Does not lift, dries hard (your cabinet will sound better) , not soft like contact adhesives. You can use an old electric frying pan to melt it. Cleans up with water. You can get it from Stewmac or even ebay. for touch ups I use titebond carpenters glue or elmers wood glue.
Sam Hutton told me to use Hide Glue, he used to work at Fender in the 60's and that is what they used. Sam was one of the first guys to do authentic restorations of vintage Fender amps.

very interesting...found this: Woodworking: Making a Case for Hide Glue - In the Woodshop

Looks like that is a viable option for woodworking too. Thanks for the tip!

[cminor9]

Hey cminor9, what about using that stuff they spray on truck bed liners? My son is in the middle of recovering a beautiful old baritone horn case, and it's loaded with compound curves. We know it's going to be a nightmare to try to tolex, and a friend suggested the truck bed stuff the other day...we're going to buy some and try it on some scrap wood.
What do you think?

For an instrument case? I'd try that. Not so sure it's the look I want for this particular project, but for the right project it'd be cool.

[Mostro]

I donīt know what spray glues are made of, but using contact cement applied with a brush I got a VERY strong bond between cab and tolex. I know because I just ripped the tolex out of a DIY amp cab (about 6 months old) to turn it into a head, and it was HARD! pulling and swearing like a madman!
My experience is that you need to let contact cement dry before you press the parts together, usually around 5 minutes, until itīs not tacky anymore. If you do that, it will make a real strong bond, much stronger than if you press the parts together while the cement is still "wet". Also, I staple all edges to make sure none lift during gluing or afterwards. Iīve seen Laney amps where the edges of the tolex inside the cab are "peeling", I guess they use spray glue of some kind at the factory, I donīt think they use a brush! So it looks like the spray stuff is not so strong...
After all, contact cement is what they use to glue the shoeīs soles, so it must be strong!

[RogerWilco99]

I've built a number of cabinets, amp cabs, combos and speaker cabs. After using the Weldbond glue for a while and getting sick of the smell and throwing away ruined brushes a friend of mine turned me on to the water based glue they sell at Antique Electronics (01 - More Info for item S-F316)

I've used this on at least a dozen cabs with both tolex and tweed with excellent results. The oldest is over two years old and the owner says it is still in fine shape with zero peeling.

I like that it's water based so there's no smell, but you can still lose brushes if you don't clean them quickly enough. This stuff sets up _quickly_. So you need to move smartly when you're using it. It's expensive but you don't need as much of it as you do with Weldbond for the same coverage. And you don't have to apply it twice (to both surfaces) and wait for it "dry" before appying the tolex. You also do get some "fiddling" time with it before it sets hard but usually it's enough for small adjustments.

I hope that helps in your search.

[Don Doucette]

You might think I am crazy but I am NOT.... and I don't usually like to share this tip with anyone but it seems so obvious to me that I don't understand why everyone isn't using it as a viable alternative...

I take my custom built cabs to Line-X
They tape off the inside of my cabs and spray on their product on the outside and I get the following benefits...
-durability... takes a beating and still looks good
-strength... actually makes my cabinets stronger
-water proofing... the outside of my cabs are sealed from the elements
-grip... my cabs are easier to handle and move around due to the product
-looks... I think it looks as good as tolex from a distance YMMV
-perfect results every time with no seams

Cost you ask? I built a cab for a fender super reverb and had it sprayed for $75. No glue to buy, no tolex to buy, no mess to clean up, no cutting and fussing with the tolex, no dry time, no wrinkles, no crooked seams, blah blah blah...

Well there you have it my secret is out, go get a cab sprayed and it will probably outlast the amplifier it is housing.

Don