TL806 and variants

[Zozobra]

I've been looking over the TL806 and it looks like it could be a fun cab for idiots like me who like to play their guitars tuned to B with too much fuzz. The TL806 certainly looks like it would be nice for home use but I have a real nice old Vox 212 with 55Hz H30s for that so I don't really need a replacement for that. This brought me to look at either a 212 or 412 to pair with (or replace...) my Matamp 412 loaded with T100's. I suppose the first thing to ask is how does the TL806Q sound for guitar use and could I use T100s (I have 4 going spare from a build that never happened) in place of the EVM-12L? I know people have used other speakers in the TL806 without issue but they probably aren't putting quite the same number of watts through them that I'm likely to. Next question: Are there plans for a 212 version? I've seen that people have simply cut the TL806Q in half dimensionally but is that the right way to go about it? This might be a more sensible route. If so I'd probably sell on my spare T100s and pick up a pair of EVM-12Ls or a pair of swamp thangs which are apparently a suitable replacement.

[Steve Conner]

The EV TL series are just generic Thiele-Small ported cabinets. You can use ports made of round plastic tubing and the results will be much the same.

Having said that, ported cabinets for guitar use are really a crap shoot. Guitar speakers are so non-linear, the Thiele-Small parameters really don't apply too well, and the high output impedance of a tube amp messes up the electrical Q anyway. So the output of speaker design software can only be a very rough approximation.

My preferred approach is to start with a box that is about the size of the appropriate EV TL series, and use WinISD to get the port tuning in the same ballpark as the speaker's own free-air resonance. For 7-string metal assault on speakers with low Xmax, you might want to tune it a bit lower to avoid excessive excursion.

As a check, I will use a sweep generator to measure the two impedance peaks. They should be roughly equal in height. But it really isn't that critical so don't be afraid to just cut the ports to whatever length sounds best. This is where plastic tubes really score over the shelf ports of the EV TL series: if you cut them too short, just fit some new ones.

Some guitarists have had good luck with the Eminence Delta Pro 12, it apparently sounds similar to the EVM12L but with more bass.

Index of /speaker Here is a simple cabinet I made for an EVM12L reissue. The ports give a noticeable increase in bottom end over a sealed cabinet of the same volume.

[Leo_Gnardo]

What Steve said. And I can say I've heard satisfying guitar from a pair of EV in single Thiele cabs driven by a (rather imposing looking) VHT power amp, can't remember the model number but it did have a pair of KT88 for each channel.

Favorite 12" for now - Eminence Texas Heat. A bit rolled off in the highs, not piercing. Good low mid response. 150W power handling and 2" voice coil. I call it the poor man's EV.

Might want to consider 15" speakers to keep that low string from stressing 12's. Or use a combo 15 & 12 or 15 & 10.

I have a Mesa 15", think it's an EV TL606 copy, with EV speaker and it sounds a treat even with regular guitar. Did a shootout one day with their 2x15 version, and of course the twofer won the day for woof capability but not portability. THEN stacked the single atop the dual and that was "the bomb!" Go vertical if you can with multi speakers.

Further, you can augment the solidity of your low end response by choosing an amp with, or installing and setting bias properly for KT88's. Plummy "hi fi" tone. Mmmmm..... goood!

[Zozobra]

Thanks for the tips. I see you went with rear facing ports. Are their any advantages in doing that other than not having to find space for them on the front baffle? I guess they don't like being too close to walls though.

[Steve Conner]

The wavelength of a bass sound wave is much bigger than the cabinet, so to a first approximation it doesn't really matter where you put the ports, as long as they're unobstructed, they will work just the same.

If you look into it deeper, the placement will matter because some midrange energy will leak out of them and interfere with the direct sound from the speaker, but this is guitar, not hi-fi.

I put them on the back because there wasn't room on the front of the old PA cabinet I was modifying, otherwise I would have put them on the front for looks.

[bob p]

I've heard stories about boxes with rear-mounted ports sounding really great in some situations and really lame in ohters. I think getting too close to the wall can be a big problem. I think there was a thread that mentioned that here in the last couple of days.


> THEN stacked the single atop the dual and that was "the bomb!"

I did that last night -- 3xEVM-15L with an SVT.

I've been using a single 1x EVM-15L in a TL606 as a guitar/4-string bass cabinet since some time in the 1970s. Back then they were not popular and my only option was to get the blueprints from EV and DIY. I've used that setup for almost 40 years now.

I've been looking for a pair of the older Mesa "Road Ready" 1x15 with the 15L in them, to compliment my old DIY cab, but I haven't had any luck finding them. Last night I bought a used Road Ready 2x15, thinking that the combination of a 1x15 and/or a 2x15 should cover a lot of ground.

I have mixed feelings about the setup. Although the 3x15 kicks some serious butt, moving the 2x15 cab is a nightmare for one person. The 1x15 is easy to handle on your own. I'd rather have 3 of the 1x15 and stack them.

A TL806Q would be a real manly looking cabinet -- it would look mean for detuned metal, but it would be a real bitch to move it up a flight of stairs. I have visions of the box bouncing down the stairs and fracturing the baskets. Stacking four little 806 sounds like a much smarter option.

[Leo_Gnardo]

Stacking four little 806 sounds like a much smarter option.

Right on brother, right on. The more the merrier. Stack until you can't stack no more. See photo.

FWIW there was a PA company, central New Jersey, with the whimsical name Joe's Sound and Salami Works. Specialized in TL style cabs. Never got to mix in any of their rigs but I did get a good listen when I was stage-manager-for-a-day with Don McLean and his band. No complaints from me! I think "salami" referred to all the plywood they were slicing up.

Clair Bros. also had their 4x15 cabs, 2 to a side as sidefills, with mid & hi components lofted above. But they're generally carried around in a semi trailer with ramps, forklifts, and teams of brawny stagehands to get 'em where they gotta go. Serious thump! for the big big big rock show.

[loudthud]

I envision the TL806Q with EVM12Ls damaging the stairs. The plans say it weights 140 pounds. That seems light.

[Leo_Gnardo]

I envision the TL806Q with EVM12Ls damaging the stairs. The plans say it weights 140 pounds. That seems light.

Stairs? Hell, back and knees! Weight will depend on what wood is used* + extra bracing + wheels & other hardware. I have an Ampeg V-4 4x12, birch ply and 4 Altecs. Great test cab, it puts up with anything and everything and sounds terrific besides. But I wouldn't want to move it up & down stairs. In fact it's stayed in the livingroom for the last 25 years or so.

*Birch ply = heavy. Italian poplar = light. Hughes & Kettner used to build cabs that weighed almost feather-light with Italian poplar ply. Good stuff if you can find it. You may remember those HK cabs from the 80's with black bristle "carpet" on them.

[Bill Moore]

I built 1/2 of 806Q's for the mid cabs of our old R&R PA setup. A few years later we were working with a country band, and hired a steel player from Texas to came work a 2 week job with us. He blew the BW 15 in his Peavey 1000, and since I didn't have a spare I brought one of the mid cabs (with 2 EVM12S speakers). He used them the rest of the job, and when were breaking down, he tried to keep the cabinet, said just to keep his pay. (I didn't).
When I started playing steel guitar a few years ago, I built myself another cab, and it is great. My wife has played bass through it at medium volume also.

[bob p]

I envision the TL806Q with EVM12Ls damaging the stairs. The plans say it weights 140 pounds. That seems light.

BTDT. While moving a Mesa Road Ready 2x15 cab by myself, I had it break free of the appliance dolly on a flight of concrete stairs. Once it got loose I made no attempt to recover it, out of fear that I'd get killed in the process. It bounced and rolled all the way down the stairs, making loud "THUNK!" sounds with every bounce. Scary as hell. Good thing there was nobody beneath it -- it would have been like being killed by a tumbling refrigerator. Damage to the cab? A dent in the back side, some rough edges on the aluminum rails that needed to be dressed with a file. Otherwise the road ready cab was hardly worse for the wear. The internals? there's the problem. The 16 lb magnet on the EV had enough inertia to fracture two spokes on the cast aluminum frame of the speaker. The concrete stairs had chunks taken out of them. Where the cabinet hit a stair corner, it took a chunk out of the corner. I've got photos somewhere.

[Leo_Gnardo]

While moving a Mesa Road Ready 2x15 cab by myself, I had it break free of the appliance dolly on a flight of concrete stairs....

Def. a "don't try this at home" experience. Now we know why they'tre called Road Ready. Glad you survived. And no one else got damaged.