Tweed Application Questions

[VictoryNVH]

I have done a lot of searching for a good explanation on the tweed application process without finding too much. Are people keeping their secrets to themselves or am I overlooking something. I'll be building my first cabinet this weekend and would like to do the tweed covering. However, I'm a perfectionist and do not want to use the chrome corner protectors so does anyone have any good tips on what to use to apply the tweed (adhesive), and on how to do the corners? I'll be building a cabinet for a 5E3 from Scott Cole's plans so if there are any cabinet specific instructions for this one I'd greatly appreciate hearing them.

By the way - I just joined the forum today so "hello" to everyone. I've fallen head over heels into this whole tube amp thing after discovering the schematic to the 5E3 about two weeks ago. I have just about all of the parts in hand now so I'll be building the cabinet this weekend and the chassis next week. I'm an experienced woodworker, and a Noise and Vibration engineer so this seems like a perfect hobby (not that I need another one).

Thank you to everyone on this board - I have read a lot of posts over the past week or so and have learned an incredible amount from the knowledge you put forth for others.

[Vintageheadboc]

In the amp section over at the gear page Jim from scumback speakers show a pic-torial on how to do the corners on a 4x12 plexi style cab this will help you with your corners...

[Bruce / Mission Amps]

Casey4's Briefcase

http://us.f13.yahoofs.com/bc/43c71b6...myx6HBvp26S39W

http://us.f13.yahoofs.com/bc/43c71b6...H0x6HBZa8IoYHM

[Vintageheadboc]

Casey4's Briefcase

http://us.f13.yahoofs.com/bc/43c71b6...myx6HBvp26S39W

http://us.f13.yahoofs.com/bc/43c71b6...H0x6HBZa8IoYHM

Your Links are Dead there Bruce

[VictoryNVH]

I did a quick search using Google to find Casey4's files. Here are a few updated links.

His Photobucket:
http://s238.photobucket.com/albums/ff243/Casey4s/

His Briefcase:
http://briefcase.yahoo.com/casey4s

Everything I've seen so far have been tolex tutorials - this looks pretty simple but I'm looking for information specific to Tweed. Since I'm new here I was looking for the Scumback photos mentioned in a previous post. I used the advanced search function in Google, and the forum search function with no success.

I have a co-worker who is bringing in a genuine tweed deluxe early next week for me to look at but I still haven't seen what kind of glue to use, or any tweed specific tips or tricks. I've found a lot on the lacquer / finishing step but I still feel like I'm missing a piece of the puzzle.

[PRNDL]

Antique sells tolex glue by the quart.
DAP Weldwood will also work, but smells horrible.

Here are some of my tips

Cut so the grain goes from 10AM to 6 PM.
Remove all of the old glue
After drying, use a roller to smooth out bubbles

I made a jig for cutting the side edges, which extend 1.25" in.

Also, the sun is your friend!

Put the glue in the sun to warm it.
The glue will dry faster in the sun

Use cheap paintbrushes to apply the glue and leave them in water between applications (tolex glue is water based).

[VictoryNVH]

Antique sells tolex glue by the quart.
DAP Weldwood will also work, but smells horrible.

So you're saying to use the tolex glue for tweed fabric (not tweed patterned tolex)?

By the way - the genuine Tweed Deluxe brought in by a co-worker is for me to look at only, not to re-cover (gasp).

[PRNDL]

So you're saying to use the tolex glue for tweed fabric (not tweed patterned tolex)?

Yes.
The DAP Weldwood may bleed through if you use way too much.
Tolex glue comes in spray cans, but I've always used the liquid applied with a cheap paintbrush.

Letting the glue dry is important. Wet glue lets the material slide, which causes bubbles later.

Are people keeping their secrets to themselves

That may be true.
Tweed is different than tolex, which may mean that there are fewer that know how to do it properly.

Notice that tweed is applied in four strips. The sides are glued first. The top and bottom are glued next. The side edges are underneath the top and bottom.

[spicoli]

description of corners

Here's a description that I copied from a thread somewhere- It describes the "pinch method" of doing the corners. You can kind of see it on Mojo's restoration slide show: http://www.mojomusicalsupply.com/recover.asp

From thread:

"It was my first tweed job. It wasn't a kit, but thanks to some quality
advice from Dan at Tubegarden (another vendor of quality kits and a cab
manufacturer) with respect to the mitering of the corners it went
smoothly. I can't say enough positive about the glue I used (RooTac by
Roo Glue, a water based neoprene contact adhesive). Unlike contact
cement I'd used in the past which tended to be very unforgiving, this
stuff had high tack, but could be repositioned, lifted and reset if
neccessary, without a problem. Once it was correctly placed, a quick
pass with the J roller and it was on for good. Best part? Only $11 for
a gallon (that's all they had at my lumberyard) vs. the nearly $30
gallon for one of the popular specialty glues I'd read about. Really
inspired confidence, although I was nervous on the first end panel
until I got the first corner done. I wish I'd had someone photograph
that corner process. It's deceptively simple, yet hard to explain
without illustration. I'll try.
*
I used a framing square along with a plastic drafting square to be sure
I cut the panels with the tweed pattern running exactly 45 degrees and
that the panels were true rectangles. I used a fresh, snap-off blade
wallpaper knife to cut the panels out. To size the end panels, I
decided that 1/2" overlap of the top/bottom panels looked right and
penciled lines on the top and bottom of the amp to help with placement
of the tweed after the glue was applied. I also marked a centerline
reference along the fore/aft pencil line and a corresponding 'witness'
mark on a small piece of blue painters tape that I stuck on the tweed
panel itself. By aligning the tweed panel's edge with the pencil line,
and the center reference marks and lightly setting this top edge down,
it took care of the front to back/top to bottom alignment. I then
smoothed the panel from top of amp to bottom, then pulled the material
around the front and back edges of the cabs end panels, making the
neccessary relief cuts there which left only the corners to deal with.
I did find that a disposable plastic putty knife was valuable for
tucking the tweed into the crevices where it wraps the back panel
cleats.
*
Before moving on, I lightly rolled the flat surfaces to make sure the
majority of the panel was were it was going to stay. For the corners,
you pinch it (wash your hands before doing this on each panel :-)
tightly along the center of the corner radius (note the line where the
tweed pattern meets in the corner detail photo). You end up with a
triangular shaped 'fin' of tweed, that sticks to itself and is quite
rigid sticking out along that radius center line at a 45 degree angle.
Finally, take a sharp pair of scissors (I used our run-of-the-mill
Fiskars)and cut tight along the line where this 'fin' meets the amp.
You can get it cut close pretty easily. I was afraid of cutting the
first one too short, but soon found that was needless worry. It's
almost physically impossible to cut it too short, unless you pull so
hard on the fin that it lifts the material away from the amp. It's
stuck really well at this point and that would require some
extraordinary effort. Once it's cut, the edges of the cut will be
sticking up slightly, but a quick pass with the J roller and the edges
lay down and meet each other as sweet as you please. I started on a
lower rear corner, then lower front, then the more visible upper
corners just in case, but they all turned great. The top and bottom
panels are straightforward, but again I used witness marks on a small
piece of the blue painters tape on each piece to make alignment easier
(I didn't want to mark on the tweed - wasn't sure if it would come
off).
*
Sorry to be so lengthy. You didn't really ask how it was done, sorry. I
got wrapped up reliving the experience! It was really fun and
rewarding, too. :-)
*
http://www.fenderforum.com/forum.htm...;*
Ernie, The overlap isn't folded over, just laid on top of the end
piece. The tweed fabric takes to being cut without fraying really well.
I ran a strip of blue painters tape from front to back on each end of
the top and bottom cab surfaces so I could apply glue up to this tape
line and not beyond. This also gave me a place to safely make my
witness mark for alignment of the top and bottom tweed panels. The
fabric is robust enough that you can tug on it a bit without fear of
pulling the tweed pattern out of alignment. I think the keys are 1)
cutting the tweed panels nice and square (I liked the framing square
for both drawing the lines on the fabric and as a cutting guide for my
knife) with the pattern at a true 45 degrees (easy with the transparent
drafting square/framing square combo), 2)making alignment marks on the
cab & tweed panel before applying glue, so you can put the piece in
place accurately without guesswork once glue is applied and 3) use a
sharp knife for relief cuts (I really liked the small, snap-off blade
wallpaper knife from Home Depot) and sharp scissors for trimming the
miters (I wouldn't try this with a knife!). I applied the glue with one
of those blonde haired cheapo 2" paint brushes. Apply to both pieces
and let dry to touch (about 30 mins. for me).
*
By the way, on the two outside corners at the entrance to the control
panel cutout, I used the exact same 'pinch' method creating the same
'fin' sticking up and trimming close with scissors, then rolling the
seam. After trimming, I used my finger tips to press the cut edges down
to each other tightly, then hit with the roller to make fast. The
materials really are quite forgiving here.
*
As far as sourcing tweed, I ended up getting referred by a local
luthier/resto specialist to a local guy who builds/recovers cabs for a
living. He kindly sold me the Fender reissue coated tweed, grill cloth
and back panel screws for $25, less than half of what it would have
cost most any place else! I was going to order from Angela's
Instruments, but they ran out just before I called them. I didn't like
the prices, but the selection was nice at Fenton Amplifier Restoration
(http://www.fentonmusic.com/).
*
I think if you take your time and do only one panel at a time you'll
pull it off. It really wasn't that difficult. Best of luck and let me
know if I can be of help.
*
Here's some tweeding pics I found somewhat useful, but ignore the
corner miter detail! He admits it wasn't correct, but overall you can
get a feel for the steps. Also the method of cutting those outside
miters at the control opening is very easily accomplished with the
'pinched fin' approach."

[VictoryNVH]

Thanks for the tips. So the tolex glue acts similar to a contact adhesive? Brush on the glue and let it dry until it becomes tacky, then apply?

I just ordered some tweed from mojo last night. I've been on the fence about the tweed because of the lack of information I have been able to find. I built a nice cabinet with through dovetails and put a coat of clear polyurethane on there so it looks nice enough to not cover, but that tweed is just too cool.

Thanks again for the tips. I'll post some pics when it's complete.

[VictoryNVH]

spicoli, thanks a ton for that last post. That one helped boost my confidence greatly. That along with a few other tips I received should be enough to get me started.

Off to start cutting the tweed!

Tony

[spicoli]

just finished my first one...

I followed the the description that I posted (thanks to whoever wrote that) and it worked great. The pinch method that he outlines really is deceptively easy- my corners came out perfect (used a wall paper seam roller -$2 at hardware store). I also had great luck with DAP weldwood waterbase neoprene contact cement (home depot). I finished it with 1 coat clear urethane and two coats minwax polyshades honey pine urethane. Now it's ready to go together. I'm very happy with the results. Good luck - I'm sure it will work well for you.

[spicoli]

some pics

Here's how mine came out. I'm sorry that I didn't take any shots of the "pinch and cut" corner method in progress, but I was pretty uptight. Turns out that there is no need to be.

[Paul P]

Fantastic job !

Paul P

[spicoli]

Thanks. I used Scott Coles cabinet plans. Thanks Scott- those were extremely helpful.